of all the guns, why G-41?

[D3terioNation]

Lets not forget that jams did happen during WW2. Some weapons more so then others.

Yes it would be quite an adrenaline rush to find yourself in that situation, but it neednt happen to your weapon if you took proper care of it!

 

[jh1990]

If you mean loud as in the real thing, then no, they aren't even clouse, and for good reason, it would damage our hearing playing the game if they where!

LOL i know that im just saying the ratio to footsteps to report seemed low on the report end and i would like for the mosins to sound a little beefier

 

[Zoring]

It wasn't dropped like a hot potato as you said, it wasn't a perfect weapon by any means but they were kept in service for ages, i have photos of Germans in 1945 in Italy carrying them still.

The only major weapons missing are the 1910 Maxim and the Nagant revolver really.

 

[zeroethics]

I know people are going to hate me for saying this but I would love to see the FG42. I'm not sure but I think it was exclusively a Falshirmjager weapon, and again, I'm not sure if the Falshirmjager troops were even really used on the eastern front at all. I did try to research that a bit but didn't come up with much, aside from vague references to 'eastern front falshirmjagers' so I don't know.

 

[BSE|Vietcong]

There were only around 4.500 produced. And those were only Fallschirmj

 

[jedinstven-o crni Wuk]

Tripwire has a fetish about rare weapons.
They are trying to be different from other WW2 games by having weapons no one else has.
It's a bit of a gimmick really. Unfortunately, it's not much more than a gimmick and doesn't really add much to the game.
I don't blame TW for experimenting like this, but it does seam to be a little unpopular, especially from the more "vocal" elements in this forum.

well the reason for this is, cause we still miss parts, which the game REALLY would need more then a aditional semi automatic weapon like the G41, that has not seen a that great action in the war.

Though, it is in now, and we can play with it. But i hope the next vehicles the game gets, is a right panzer IV version ... since it should be arelady in game from the first version.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

jams would be a great addition to the game, and would really make some certain weapons more unfavorable, because now some weapons with a bad track record are over used.. *hinty* everyone thinks the g41 is better then g43 but it should be other way round endhinty*

 

[Blitz-Hawk]

Jams would also add another advantage back to the bolt actions: reliability. Doesn't get much more reliable than a manual bolt. I'd be all for jams. Besides, then we could get a button that would be used solely for cycling the weapons. Fixes jams, AND lets you dump that last round before you decide to fire another stripper clip into that bolt action.

On a different note, why is it that when you reload the G41 while it still has ammo in it that it doesn't eject a round? If you want to go realism crazy then give that one a go.

 

[[StB]Phantom]

I like the challenges realism games offer, they are by far MUCH MUCH harder but more rewarding than your average gameplay game.


Actually on some maps they really do outnumber the Germans. But I wouldn't expect you to know that.

Actually i ment on the map rather than a certain number of replacements Strother but i would not expect you to know that.After all you never asked me.

I also like the realism,but you never asked me.

 

[[StB]Phantom]

Why wouldn't jams be fun?

When I take a weapon (PPSh for example) of an enemy and forget to reload it, I sometimes start to shoot and after 3 or 4 rounds it stops... magazine empty. You could compare that to a jam. You expected 71 rounds and only get 3. Now you are in trouble, have to get out, reload. You get a slight adrenaline kick and you see, that a weapon is only usefull if you use it right.

Thats the kind of "fun" realistic games give you. You are in that world and you feel with your avatar. It's not about big explosions and scripted events like MOH

Well who said it was like MOH,not sure i read that ?.
Who said it was not fun ?.
I love the realism !.

All effects have to be coded-it is software after all.

The ultimate in realism:
#1: ****, my G41 jammed!
#2: Quick, smack him with your butt-stock!
#3: ****, it broke!
#4: Ok, clear the jam!
#5: Damnit, the cocking handle bent!
#6: ... You could use your fist.
#7: Huh? That thing can kill people?

My simple statement is will you get an adrenaline rush if a jam causes your team to lose a game because it was your rifle/smg/mg that jammed ?.

If the devs introduce jams they should make it across the board,just do not single out one individual weapon.

Capiche ?.

 

[Solo4114]

Not to mention the fact that, as I keep pointing out, we don't have any data on how OFTEN the weapons jammed -- just anecdotal statements and stuff from Wikipedia like "The gun was prone to jamming." Oh really? Under what conditions? What percentage of the time? How often did it jam in comparison to the other guns? Did THEY never jam?

And how would you guys propose Tripwire REALISTICALLY model jams exactly? What should cause them? Random chance? Environmental conditions like cold weather, or dirt getting into the gun or shock to the weapon itself? Bad ammunition?

Guns don't just jam on their own out of the blue. Something has to MAKE them jam. The G41s jammed because of environmental factors that didn't work well with their construction, not because the gun would just up and jam in laboratory-like conditions for no apparent reason.

So unless and until someone can come up with good data on how jams operated with ALL the weapons, and the G41 in particular, I'd say jams are one of those things that are a "neat idea" that can't be implemented properly.

I guarantee you as soon as TW added jams, people would complain about them not being realistic. "WTF?? All I was doing was running around and then I dove into a trench and now my gun won't fire? Thanks for nothing TW! This game is getting less realistic all the time!" "Wait a minute, my gun jammed because we're playing on a winter map?? Why'd MINE jam and the OTHER guy didn't? What makes his identical rifle so special??"

There's just no way to do this properly.

 

[BSE|Vietcong]

You two talk as if a jam would appear every second shot. And you also act as if the world would go down if one appears...

Calm down. A buttstock of a gun doesn't simply break, but guns jam. And if it doesn't happen too often and only after handling mistakes, it will not make your team instantly lose and it will not make you start to cry...

Holy cow

 

[Tak]

The thing is, even with the G41, in the small amount of time that an RO round makes up (especially the small lifespan of each weapon, as you get a new one every spawn) the chances of a jam will be extremely small. It still takes the same amount of work to put hte code in regardless of if it happens all the time or too little or 'just enough'. That time is better spent on *anything* else. All weapons can jam. Even a manual bolt weapon can jam. But, jams largely depend on the condition of the weapon, which you (the shooter) keep up with proper maitenance. So when people say 'model jamming in game', what they're really saying is 'model a player activity/variable that is out of the scope of the game'.

Adding in Tiger tanks breaking down and tanks as a whole not starting due to cold who more accurately represent a challenge faced on the battle field than weapon jamming, IMO. We can assume there were lots of jams, but so much of what causes jams is just not in the scope of RO. Tanks we know broke down and would sometimes refuse to start in the cold (like big versions of early cars!) and we *do* model cold in the game.


Anyway, jamming has long been done to death. The work just isn't worth the small chance it has in game, and ultimately really adds nothing to the game.
​

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

#2: Quick, smack him with your butt-stock!
#3: ****, it broke!

lol...like wtf...I'm hoping there is some SERIOUS sarcasm in that.

Actually i ment on the map rather than a certain number of replacements Strother but i would not expect you to know that.

I don't think you quite understand the concept of reinforcements. There are only 32 players max. If you want a constant outnumbering then first of all the game wouldn't be fun because the one team would ALWAYS get crushed, it is hard enough to win as it is when you are outnumbered reinforcement wise.

 

[Solo4114]

You two talk as if a jam would appear every second shot. And you also act as if the world would go down if one appears...

Calm down. A buttstock of a gun doesn't simply break, but guns jam. And if it doesn't happen too often and only after handling mistakes, it will not make your team instantly lose and it will not make you start to cry...

Holy cow

I'm not sure if you're addressing me, but if you are, you're actually making my point. You say a jam wouldn't appear every two shots. Fair enough. It would only happen after "handling mistakes". Like what, exactly? Failure to properly close the bolt? Failure to maintain the gun (which we don't do in-game anyway)? What would be a "handling error" be exactly?

Or would we implement a random chance to get a jam and simply have it be higher for the G41? Ok, but how MUCH higher? And how often should it happen for the OTHER guns? We don't have any data on this stuff.

Plus, jams happen for any number of reasons. A bad magazine spring that doesn't feed the round into the chamber properly. Dirt in the chamber blocking the feed mechanism or preventing the bolt from properly cycling. Cold or heat causing the metal of the rounds or the chamber to expand or contract to a point where the gun won't operate. Cold weather making the gases that cycle the bolt less expansive and thus not able to provide the force necessary to cycle the bolt. The receiver being damaged to where the bolt won't operate. And so on and so forth.

You want to model all that in game? It would be INCREDIBLY complex and processor intensive, and would require a lot of additional coding just to add the jamming feature.


Or they'd have to add a relatively simplistic and UNrealistic "random jamming" number where if you get a "bad dice roll" on your round, your gun won't fire.

Don't forget, we'll also need to have a new keybind and action to unjam the gun


On the other hand....they could take the resources necessary to implement this system and:

- Add new critical zones for tanks
- Add in a stamina and accuracy drop when diving to prone with iron sights up
- Adjust MG recoil
- Adjust SMG recoil
- fix any number of other bugs or add more code in other areas.

Which would you say is more valuable as an expenditure of time?

 

[sander]

Can someone just show me 1-3 photos of an soldier with an G41. I haven't seen any. Though I see it on every map, pretty weird isn't it. Give me one good reason why an historical accurate realism game (the reason I bought this game) should have weapons that weren't used. And the reason:"because the germans need an <43 MK" is only an good reason for games like Counter Strike. If I saw this weapon on 1 map it is ok (same with the MP41) but it is on almost every map.

Why???

 

[Crim]

okey doke

edit for the post below: pure truth, the MP34 is ten times better anyway. three different magazine wells, AND a bayonet.

 

[[5.SS]Strother]

I would rather have the g41 in than the mp41...what exactly does the mp41 add to the gameplay anyway?

 

[Quietus]

I would rather have the g41 in than the mp41...what exactly does the mp41 add to the gameplay anyway?

Indeed....actually I'd rather have the mp28/34/35 than the mp41 as they were alot less rare than the mp41 and if you're going to use a police or "security" mp might as well use a common one. But this is for another thread.

 

[melipone]

I would rather have the g41 in than the mp41...what exactly does the mp41 add to the gameplay anyway?

Nothing, but they already had the model from the mod - so I think it was just a port to the new engine - no real time needed to be spent on it I think. And it looks good for the company being able to say they added a new gun in a free update