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Beta Map [Beta 3] RO-Berezina

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#41
I think that the new cap zones are fine and you should do what you want either way Berezina is going to be a classic.
Slyk: what do you think about making only enough Russian Tanker spawns to put one in each tank and maybe an extra or two for those that would like to try and team tank on the Russian side. I agree that this map is more suited for solos on the russian side. so this could make more people be infantry and support their tanks. Not sure what the Ratio is at the moment. Alot of times tankers are standing around waiting to hop in a tank and take off on their own, so this could put more bodies in the trenches.
 
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#42
I didn't fully understand the multi-brush concept in the initial post. Thanks for the elaboration. I don't see doing that for this map, however. I think the single focal point is probably the best thing in this particular scenario as it creates better fire fights instead of bug hunting house to house. Next map might have a use for this. Perhaps the example could be a post of it's own in 'level design' etc as I doubt many people know of that technique.
 
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#43
well, as regards the armor and cap zones, I play german and soviet tanker about equally. So, i don't fit into your generalization that people who dislike the cap zone change "are probably german tankers all the time (paraphrasing). :rolleyes:

yep, it sure is your map, no doubt about that. however, that does not change the fact that the cap zone change is a mistake.

ya lost me. cheers!
ladiesmanavafi1.gif
 
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#44
Heinz said:
well, as regards the armor and cap zones, I play german and soviet tanker about equally. So, i don't fit into your generalization that people who dislike the cap zone change "are probably german tankers all the time (paraphrasing). :rolleyes:

yep, it sure is your map, no doubt about that. however, that does not change the fact that the cap zone change is a mistake.

ya lost me. cheers!
ladiesmanavafi1.gif
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Heinz, you've been a big supporter of the map. I appreciate that. But it is a ****ing beta. I am certainly entitled to try various things. Quite a few things have been changed in each version to date. The current setup is what I wanted from day one but didn't do until B3. I am just curious what your and other's feeling would be if it had always been this way.

I might change it back. I guess what annoys me is any concrete statement like your above "...is a mistake". That is your opinion. Has it changed gameplay? Yes. Has it crippled the Germans? I certainly doubt it. Does it make teamwork more vital for one particular objective? Yes. Does it make sense to avoid a map because it suddenly plays different in TWO of NINE objective zones? Not so much. I do not recall you complaining about the village cap zone change in B2.

To say "I think it is a mistake..." or "In my opinion..." is one thing. Otherwise you come off sounding to me like a tank-whore who won't play a map unless it is just how you want it. I certainly never had nor have that opinion of you. I am just surprised at your angle on this subject.

In the end I will decide what to do based on overall feedback. Unfortunately the community is pretty small making it hard to get a broad set of opinions. Maybe the 1st line should be larger and include the ability for vehicle caps. I lean toward that change more so than the 2nd line. Until I see a good bit more feedback and some solid evidence and reasoning other than "because I don't like it", I am not moved to change back just for the sake of it. There will be another two weeks most likely before 'final' so that is ample time for others to post their thoughts and hopefully back them up with observations about how this change has impacted the flow of the map. I will be happy to say it was better in B2 if that is what proves out. It's a test. This is also why I went with B3 now.
 
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#45
Well I am sorry to see anyone go, but this map is a CA map and the change made it where both infantry and tankers can enjoy the map. Slyk felt all along that it was too much tank based and now he has changed it to a true CA map. I feel it is a good balance to have the armor support the ground troops on some of the cap zones. Why would anyone want to be a rifleman when you end up running behind the tanks as they get the cap zones and you have very little chance to help your team. RO is suppose to be a team oriented game and the way Berezina was playing it wasn't as team oriented as it is with the infantry cap zones.

I guess you changed your mind.

Heinz
I agree with the overall plan, to make some of the areas infantry-only cap-able. makes alot of sense. I also like the suggestions above re making those tunnels a cap point. would make for some interesting fights. if implemented, every bit of the 60 minutes on the map would then be necessary for the Germans.
Click to expand...

I guess you have to be the type of player that enjoys your team supporting each other for the win in order to play a map like Berezina.
 
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#46
I like the trench only cap zones, especially if the server is not full. Nothing is more boring than being Russian infantry, ready for a fight, and having the whole German side pick tanks and just roll up and sit beside the trenches until they cap. I like the CA aspect very much, and if it takes a couple of no-vehicle-cap points to force people to jump in the trenches and fight, then so be it. People who just want to sit in a tank and plink away at each other from 600m can play Arad or Orel or Black Day July (I like those maps too). I hope this map stays the fighting tooth and nail struggle that it is, with tanks playing an important supporting role, but ground troops mattering more.
 
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#47
Played on a full server tonight and as Russians, with no more reinforcements, we held the Germans from the East Bank for another seven to nine more minutes and finally only lost it with about 1:30 minutes left. I don't even think we had more than one tank left during that whole time, and we held them off with coordinated infantry effort mostly. And all that after getting steamrolled and loosing up to the village CP in the first 15 to 20 minutes!

Great Game tonight everyone!!!!
 
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#48
So far whenever I'm a German tanker on Berezina I basically just hang back and pummel anything Russian while our infantry makes the cap. I don't concern myself with capping while tanking only providing MASSIVE SUPPORT so our INFANTRY can make the cap. Charging the objectives with your tank is a good way to get killed quick. Take advantage of the tanks main gun range & firepower. Why get close unless you have to? it's a similar philosophy to being a sniper.
 
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#49
I prefer the capzones the way they are now. I used to play the German side alot on this map, and when the 2nd line became a quagmire, it was rather easy to pack a halftrack up with a handful of guys, and two tanks with a couple of guys each.... and follow an arty barrage on the defensive tank, then park on the capzone. Granted a good defending team might be able to handle that tactic, but more often than not it was an easy way to cap. Now the tanks play more of a supporting role which I think is the desired effect, and it ends up being more of a challenge for the attacking team.

I'm enjoying playing the defensive side, it seems to me that its more of a challenge. As the German side I find it easy to win. Love the map Slyk, thanks. Lets get some working AT guns :D
 
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#51
=GG= Mr Moe said:
Played on a full server tonight and as Russians, with no more reinforcements, we held the Germans from the East Bank for another seven to nine more minutes and finally only lost it with about 1:30 minutes left. I don't even think we had more than one tank left during that whole time, and we held them off with coordinated infantry effort mostly. And all that after getting steamrolled and loosing up to the village CP in the first 15 to 20 minutes!

Great Game tonight everyone!!!!
Click to expand...

Damn You , I looked at the same time last night and couldnt find anyone playing this map. It really needs to be in heavier rotation here in NA. The dedicateds are never populated and I cannot see which other servers play it. :mad:
 
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#56
I like the notion that the tanks can't cap and are designed to play a more support-based role. It really lets you see the value of a good PzIV F1 matched with a Pz III for anti-armor work.

I played this the other day and the tanks were invaluable in terms of actually suppressing the enemy infantry so that friendlies could advance on the various cap zones.
 
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