Beta Map [Beta 2] RO-Berezina

[{Cap-Down}]

with regards to tank shell drop off, it is functioning like a t60, if you change the ranges from 0 metres to 600 it makes little difference. Something to fix please, not a complaining so don't yell at me please.

you mean the range of the BT-7 gun is acting like the range of 20mm shell of the T-60?

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I too thought I noticed a LOS reduction in Beta 2.

I haven't noticed a difference in FPS (I only got to play 15 minutes on the new one), but mine were mostly fine in Beta 1 and I don't recall any real performance issues in Beta 1.

If given the choice, I would prefer the longer LOS back unless it seriously hampered performance.

 

[Slyk]

Fog line: cut 2,000 units, from 18,000 to 16,000. Due to adding all the details that everyone *****ed about the FPS took a pounding. Even after setting short culldistance settings on them all (2048 or less mostly), it didn't seem to help much. Cutting the fog line added another 20+ FPS.

The fog for the portals (in doors/windows) is shorter than the outside fog as well...in B1 it was the same as the outdoor.

Overall I thought parts of the map improved or should improve because I sectioned it off into three major zones. Apparently that only made it worse. Still an opponent of super details in houses and such at the expense of FPS.

T60/BT7: I know the gun/shell numbers were tweaked. And semblence is not intended. Generally at 45mm shell should have a much flatter trajectory than the others in game. It will be looked at and tweaked as we move forward.

If you have bad FPS situations, please POST screenshots and your system specs and/or settings. I developed the map on the highest settings possible and still maintain fairly good FPS but I need to know your configs to better set things.

 

[DevilDog (Teufelhund)]

First, thanks for the comments. Constructive feedback is always welcomed. I'll try to respond to the comments at one time.

Just out of curiousity, once your BT-7 is complete will you be releasing this to the public (mappers) to use or is it strictly for you maps only?

I personally won't mind sharing the source code if asked once it is complete. I can not speak for the model or skins as they are not my work. My only concern is that we start ending up with numerous variants which would kill any consistency with the tank. Truthfully, I don't want to take credit for anything original in the scripts. That would be the original developer, Ramm. I simply took scripts from existing tanks and changed values to suit the BT-7. The next two projects we have in the works I'll take credit for once we actually release them as there will be original code in them.

Hey Slyk,

I think I found a bug with the BT7. I was unable to change tank rounds to HE. (Of course this may not be a bug, maybe the BT7 never used them ) In any case I wanted to make you aware of it in case it was not intended.

I've looked at numerous sources and none of them list the BT-7 as having an HE round. I'll gladly put it in if someone can provide a verifiable source for the info. If after testing we find it's needed for game play it may be added. For now I'm trying to keep the spirit of the game's closeness to reality.

I will update the HUD shortly. Lex sent me two textures to use and I needed to build a utx file and get the rotation right. It's a crude looking BT-7 and we will make it prettier later. But there will be no more T-60 in the gunner's HUD, so it's a good thing.

with regards to tank shell drop off, it is functioning like a t60, if you change the ranges from 0 metres to 600 it makes little difference. Something to fix please, not a complaining so don't yell at me please.

No offense taken. This is my first attempt with scripting for RO, so I'm learning something new everyday. Worluk is going to look over the scripts, so I'm sure there will be plenty of suggestions afterward.

I'm using a variety of sources for technical information. Mostly though, it is from Tarrif.net. The shell is based off the BR-240 P (Armor Piercing Composite Rigid) with it's velocity of 970 m/s. The speed in the code is "58540". In places where I could reverse engineer the formula to get a parm value I did. There are a few places where I had to take an educated guess. I'll take a look again at the "RangeValues" for the sight to see if that will help, but I think that just affects where the range bar moves in the sight when you increase or decrease the range. I tried using a different sight, but none work as well as the T-60. Since we're using the T-60 sight, we may be hostage to this.

Again, thanks for the comments!

 

[Musketeer]

I have played this map about 8 times now. I have to say it really rocks and is a great combination of infantry and armor.

I know nothing of map making, and perhaps it has only been my experience, but it seems like the Russians are pretty low on reinforcements. I do not know if they start out the same but it is not uncommon that by the time the second line is taken (the real turning point in the fight as I have seen it) The Allies are often 30% behind on reinforcements. They then get rolled up pretty handily and it is not uncommon for them to be out when the Germans roll through the last cap zone.

Have others noted the Sovs being way behind on reinforcements and would increasing the reinforcements for the Sovs make the game more winable for them. Every time I have played the Axis has won.

 

[Heinz]

I have played this map about 8 times now. I have to say it really rocks and is a great combination of infantry and armor.

I know nothing of map making, and perhaps it has only been my experience, but it seems like the Russians are pretty low on reinforcements. I do not know if they start out the same but it is not uncommon that by the time the second line is taken (the real turning point in the fight as I have seen it) The Allies are often 30% behind on reinforcements. They then get rolled up pretty handily and it is not uncommon for them to be out when the Germans roll through the last cap zone.
Have others noted the Sovs being way behind on reinforcements and would increasing the reinforcements for the Sovs make the game more winable for them. Every time I have played the Axis has won.

the problem is not the russian reinforcement setting, it's the player base itself! people refuse to sit back and play defense. I saw some early russian losses this weekend, cause we were down on reinforcements because of the rambos.

I don't know how you solve that.

 

[Musketeer]

the problem is not the russian reinforcement setting, it's the player base itself! people refuse to sit back and play defense. I saw some early russian losses this weekend, cause we were down on reinforcements because of the rambos.

I don't know how you solve that.

Perhaps it comes down to playing the map more... experience. Playing a defensive map is a lot different than an all out cap fest. Look at Odessa where the Germans can easily be swept away if they do not contest each position in force. Throwing only a couple guys at a point only gets them killed and looses the point. Konigsplatz is an excellent example where the Germans need to put up uinified defense and trade space for time.

Perhaps in another week or so as more regulars play this map it will get better for the Russians. What is always key is that the person who is the officer uses their "V" commands and does more than just spot arty. The officer should always have either a cap marked for attack or defense. This will help to guide other players who may not be listenning to chat. Everytime the officer dies they need to reset this. I always do and have noticed a significant improvement in our ability to take objectives when the officer gives instructions.

 

[Divinehammer]

the problem is not the russian reinforcement setting, it's the player base itself! people refuse to sit back and play defense. I saw some early russian losses this weekend, cause we were down on reinforcements because of the rambos.

I don't know how you solve that.

I think the slight increase will help this a bit but you are right people dont understand the strategy or refuse to take orders. I saw one guy get shot twice when he was running aroundt the farm (after cap) and we were holding second line then he was cussing up a storm because we shot him. If you venture out to the killzone you are on your own, I'm sorry. Comms is the key telling your mates what you see and where it is headed also if germans are in the trenches helps. We held the 2nd line twice for the win in two back to back games. Good tankers also help supporting the infantry in the trenches. This map requires you to use actual tactics people just need to realize it. If you are a KV driver you cant be parking 50 yards infront of the trench and not expect to get lit up like a christmas tree( I saw this it was idiotic). Play as a team and use your mic !

 

[Boogerhead]

I tried this in practice mode. The BT-7 makes a good substitute for the PTRD at the moment, so it's good practicing targeting the German tanks.

All that said: The initial German spawn has no protection. You might want to fix that in latter versions.

 

[endorphin]

The initial German spawn has no protection. You might want to fix that in latter versions.

If the germans are still there by the time the russian tanks get in range, they kind of deserve being spawned. (jmo) They should easily be able to walk over the two first objectives before that can happen.

 

[Heinz]

All that said: The initial German spawn has no protection. You might want to fix that in latter versions.

yeah, I just remembered that, and forgot to mention that in my earlier post; the germans NEED some kind of progressive spawn protection. on at least 2 different servers this past weekend, some jerks on the russian team were ignoring their defensive obligations, and camping one of the progressive german spawn points. just spawn raping.

it ruined the game for all. that's bad on 2 counts, not helping your team defend like you are supposed to, and unfairly raping the attacker sp they can't even get a second wave of attacks going. I mean one guy was sitting right on top of a spawn with his KV1, blowing up tanks (un-occupied) and MGing all the dudes that spawned.

that's a potential game killer IMO.

 

[Slyk]

I have to wonder if you were playing Beta 1 or 2. Beta 2 has working spawn protections for the Germans nearly all the way down the map. The Russians do not and I did find a few cases where it is needed and I will apply that.

It also looks like a Beta 3 will be necessary, but the BT is just not coming along as fast as we would like. I may use another beta to get the infantry components smoothed out and then, if the T60 hybrid is going over well, we'll jump to 'final' with the BT. We will see.

 

[2Manny]

Again, great work Slyk.

I personally love that you have to watch your reinforcements and play smart. Last night we had one get all the way down to the wire, and Allies ran out of reinforcements with 5 minutes left, and they still managed to hold off the Axis until the germans finally took the final objective with 20 secs left. Was exciting. BUT - I do constantly hear complaints from typical pubbers about that. Frequently hear ppl don't want to vote in the map at all because "axis always wins because reinforcements are ****ed", or if it does get voted in, everybody wants to play as Axis. ugh

Now on the other side of the coin, I'm also now getting complaints from Allied players regarding the new progressive spawn protection - lol, I know, hate to even mention it - but nothing like instant death to a bunch of russkies at once to piss people off (especially when they're trying to guard what they feel is an already too-low reinforcement number). Any way to get around the instant-death for those who are already within the area when the obj is capped?

Great work on the BT btw. I love it even with the T60 model - but am excited to see it's next incarnation.

 

[Slyk]

Any way to get around the instant-death for those who are already within the area when the obj is capped?

Not that I know of... I will check and see. The warning is set at 15 seconds now. I hate to keep 'pubbing' the servers, for lack of a better term. I suppose in the end you have to make concessions or no one will play the map. It is a BETA for crying out loud...there are only so many ways that you can test these things on full servers with all types of players. That is the hard fact to face. It takes time.

I have no problem pushing a Beta 3 within a week, IF there are major issues to clear up. Everything that is mentioned to me, I look at and attempt to fix asap. With the reinforcements now at 280, I cringe to give the Russians 300. It comes down to playing 'the map' not your personal 'style' as so many do.

On a side note, get this embarassing event: Sunday I am playing beta 2 on a fairly full server. I take Squad Leader as no one has it to defend the east bank. I finally cave in to requests for arty and set off the first call... 8 TKs at least. I was in the attic by that radio juggling space with a sniper...I only can guess that he bumped me as I pressed the 'fire' key and set the arty on the WINDOW FRAME!!! Not good when you are already squeezed for reinforcements.

 

[Oi!Oi!Oi!]

I wish the final assault on the east bank could be more infantry oriented. seems like every game I play, the final battle is tanks exchanging fire and German tanks spraying the trenches with MG fire.

Except for the sniper and the 2 crazy guys who charge the trenches alone in their halftracks, it seems like all the German infantry is waiting back at the village CP while playing card or something.

Maybe there could be more cover for German infantry to approach the east bank without halftracks.

Also, since you bothered to create the whole tunnel network behind the second line, why not make it an objective (call it the "underground ammunition depot" or something)? This would bring at least one decent infantry fight where tanks can't interfere.

You can't do miracles with only 32 players minus the 13-15 guys who are tank crew, PTRD and snipers. What you can do at least is force those 17 other infantry guys to meet at the same place.

Anyway, it's always the same problem I have with this map...not enough infantry battle other than 1 vs 1 encounters and the occasional mini fights that occur in trenches.

So far Konigplatz is the only combined arms map that provides satisfying infantry action.

 

[Barneby_Jenkins]

Dayummmmmmm I've been playing this as much as possible over the last couple of days and it is truly one of the best maps I've played in any game.

I played in an epic battle the other night as a ruskie, the best part came at the 18 minute mark when our reinforcement level was dropping at an unsustainable rate and a couple of us agreed that the team should make a full retreat and to my amazement the entire team was back on the other side of the river within 2-3 minutes. It's such an awesome experience playing with a good team against good opponents. Major Kudos to slyk for taking the time to treat the community with this gem.

I know most clans have a hard time getting 16 v. 16 matches going but I hope some good clan matches get going on this map because it's so shweet.

 

[Slyk]

I wish the final assault on the east bank could be more infantry oriented. seems like every game I play, the final battle is tanks exchanging fire and German tanks spraying the trenches with MG fire.
+ True. I could just remove all the tanks and then the Russians can mow down the German infantry just the same, only in bigger numbers. That is a busy scene down there now. I will look at more cover but it is the same old story. Teamwork. It takes more than 2 or 3 guys to capture most objectives. I am not going to make it any easier on the German team. Fewer tanks? That might work too. But try telling half the tankers (5 or less per team) that they have to switch roles mid-way through the battle. I have recently played where half the German team..1 tank, 1 halftrack and a half dozen infantry, on foot, crossed at the south end of the river and rolled up the Russian left flank for a CAP win. Don't tell me it can't/hasn't been done. Once the Germans wittle down the Russian tanks, as it really was, they can go in for the kill.

Except for the sniper and the 2 crazy guys who charge the trenches alone in their halftracks, it seems like all the German infantry is waiting back at the village CP while playing card or something.
+ That is the 'teamwork' point again. This crying point is applicable at each and every objective in every map. I can't and won't make my maps dumbed down to the lowest common noob-inator, nor should other mappers. If players choose to be idiots there is nothing you can do about it other than switch servers and hope for the best.

Maybe there could be more cover for German infantry to approach the east bank without halftracks.
+ See above. I'll consider adding more.

Also, since you bothered to create the whole tunnel network behind the second line, why not make it an objective (call it the "underground ammunition depot" or something)? This would bring at least one decent infantry fight where tanks can't interfere.
+ Thought about it. No point to it. One entry now, it would require at least one more and then where the hell do I spawn players? Russians would be easy, Germans...not so much, nor fairly spaced. I don't see being confined to six foot wide, 60 foot long hallways a 'decent' infantry fight. The Russians would run out of troops just on that objective. The Germans would be smart to NOT cap it.

You can't do miracles with only 32 players minus the 13-15 guys who are tank crew, PTRD and snipers. What you can do at least is force those 17 other infantry guys to meet at the same place.
+ 13-15 is a bit of an exaggeration. 6 German, 4 Russian tankers. I have considered cutting that to 5 and 3 and may do so. Less than that seems to few. Why do some people think 'combined arms' means one tank per side and maybe a halftrack or two? If I wanted that type of map, I'd make one 1/3 the size...then there would be point to it. I think there are plenty of situations where most of the team meets in one area. I suggest you server surf a bit and see how it plays elsewhere.

Anyway, it's always the same problem I have with this map...not enough infantry battle other than 1 vs 1 encounters and the occasional mini fights that occur in trenches.
+ All in all, I think you should play other maps. You obviously don't like this one and nothing I do short of removing all the tanks and shortening the map will please you. That's evident to me. The majority of the setup is staying as is. I think there is overwhelming approval of it as it plays now and I intend to work to sharpen that experience the best I can.

So far Konigplatz is the only combined arms map that provides satisfying infantry action.
+ That would be due to the fact that the armor is so restricted in where it can and can't go. The armor combat on that map, and the infantry most of the time, for that matter, plays exactly the same way nearly every time. Tanking on that map is very little challenge because it is so predictable. The Russians at least have two flanks to work with. But sounds like you should just stick that map. You'll be much less frustrated. Just sounds to me like you would be much happier playing CoD2.

 

[LordOliver]

Chalk me up as another person who thinks this is the best map available. With a good teams on both sides, it always seems to come down to the wire. Have played both sides and have sometimes won and sometimes lost on each side.

Great balance and it comes down to teamwork for the victory.

Sadly, I too am coming up with bad fps after a while. Especially after the Farm has been taken and artillery starts raining down on the 2nd line. always while looking to the north or east. Real slideshow type framerates.

I will post some screenies with FRAPS and system specs. There really seems to be something different between beta 1 and 2 in regards to this. Could just be me... dunno.

Excellent work though! Thanks for your mapping teams hard work on this jem.

A64 3200+ Venice
1GB PC3200
Asus 6600GT AGP 8x
1600x1200 2xAA/0XAF

 

[Oi!Oi!Oi!]

I like your map, I'm not frustrated and I never played COD. Don't jump to conclusions.

 

[[5.SS] Herr Hut]

About the HE rounds I totally bow to your research, I just wanted to make sure you knew it wouldn't switch in case that wasn't intended.

As for the HUGE drop in FPS, it has happened to me twice as well and its only when looking toward the bridge, to that side of the map. Each time I have left the game and reconnected and it has fixed itself....weird. Seems to happen randomly too. Tonight I was fine playing the map the entire first round, and then halfway through the second it started dropping my fps to like...1