How about you face off agaist 3 times as many tanks with your panzer 4 H, and I'm sure you'll be wanting the old way. Then talk about loadoutskabex said:
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Panzer IV H and STUG G variants.
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No, I don't want to balance it. I want the Germans to get REAL TANKS just like the soviets.DrGuppy said:
Pz IV F/2s = not real. All T34/85s = not real.
T34/85 = rapes PzIVF/2, it's not up for discussion.
It's a rapefest. Germans get spit on with the current loadout(talking armor only, not whether they win the map or not).
I want REAL TANKS. That's what I want.
I don't want unrealistic loadouts. For example, the Germans had great tanks like the Tiger/TigerII but they weren't common, so we should only see 1 or 2 per map. Same with the IS-2.
If giving the German team 12 kingtigers made it balanced, should they get them? No. That's completely unrealistic.
You know what? I'll gladly do that, but on Orel.How about you face off agaist 3 times as many tanks with your panzer 4 H, and I'm sure you'll be wanting the old way. Then talk about loadouts
I get a PzIV-H and the enemy 3 times as many T34/76. Actually, that's perfect!
I kill so many T34/76s on Orel88 with my F/2 that I run out of ammo easily! And the F/2 is a crap tank.
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kabex said:
The German vehicles are outdated. Panzer IV H's and StuG G's would be better for the later maps, I agree. As for the Russians having tanks that are too good, it is way more likely that the Russians would have brought all those tanks to the battle in 1944 then the Germans having their impressive armada in summer 1944 that is shown in Arad.
If Arad is unbalanced it's not due to the inequalities of the tanks, but due to the fact that it is too easy for the much more mobile soviet tanks to take the axis south field.
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haha look at the concrete
haha look at the concrete
you can see the concrete on a stug here http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=49260&highlight=stug
haha look at the concrete
you can see the concrete on a stug here http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=49260&highlight=stug
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stugs
stugs
look here for some stug types http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=884562&highlight=#884562
stugs
look here for some stug types
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=884562&highlight=#884562
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yes but on a late 1945 map give the germans 3 king tigers 2 panthers and for ruskies 5 IS-2s and 3 su100s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SU-100kabex said:
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I dont get the points on Pz IVs. They are fine in the game, they just cant go head to head vs T 34/85. That is just realistic. The Skirts are not armor, but gave protection against AT-Rifles and to some extent against Zooks and captured Panzerfausts. This cant be in the game because of game balance issues.
BTW the Historical and tactical guide says that the tanks in the game are there to represent tanks at the given time. So, the StuG is there to simulate both the shortbarreled infantry support types as well as the late war tank hunter types.
The only thing I dont understand is why the Germans have access to longbarrelled PzIVs in the early war maps. That feels strange.
If we could get rid of them in these maps, I personally could settle for a Pz IV H making it into the game.
Oh and just a little note on T-34/85 numbers: ca 17000 were produced between March44 and May45. The Germans on the other hand built built ca 7500 Pz IV with the long 75. And there were roughly as many IS-2s built as Pz IV H. Just to make this clear.
BTW the Historical and tactical guide says that the tanks in the game are there to represent tanks at the given time. So, the StuG is there to simulate both the shortbarreled infantry support types as well as the late war tank hunter types.
The only thing I dont understand is why the Germans have access to longbarrelled PzIVs in the early war maps. That feels strange.
If we could get rid of them in these maps, I personally could settle for a Pz IV H making it into the game.
Oh and just a little note on T-34/85 numbers: ca 17000 were produced between March44 and May45. The Germans on the other hand built built ca 7500 Pz IV with the long 75. And there were roughly as many IS-2s built as Pz IV H. Just to make this clear.
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Dude, the Pz IV Ausf H has +30mm of armor on the hull (where the majority of projectiles strike) and the barrel is another 150mm longer, and the charge is larger also.
Historicly, the Pz IV Ausf H went up against T-34/85s and came out (when the numbers were close) slightly ahead. They were both capible of one shot kills out to about a thosand meters, but the Pz IV H had a better turret traverse and optics.
Not to mention, it's one of the coolest looking tanks ever.
Historicly, the Pz IV Ausf H went up against T-34/85s and came out (when the numbers were close) slightly ahead. They were both capible of one shot kills out to about a thosand meters, but the Pz IV H had a better turret traverse and optics.
Not to mention, it's one of the coolest looking tanks ever.
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If your post is directed towards me, I already said earlier in my post, if we could get rid of the Pz IV longs in the early war maps, I would like to see a Pz IVH replacing the F2 version.
On a sidenote, according to my sources the penetration difference between both guns is neglectable.
If the Pz IVHs came up as the winner in a duell with T-34/85, I think that it had more to do with small unit tactics than anything else. Which will be very hard to model into the game.
On a sidenote, according to my sources the penetration difference between both guns is neglectable.
If the Pz IVHs came up as the winner in a duell with T-34/85, I think that it had more to do with small unit tactics than anything else. Which will be very hard to model into the game.
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Slow Larry said:
What early maps? The F/2 is in Bondarevo, which is a JULY 1942 map.
The Panzer IV F/2 begun production in April 1941 so it's okay to have it there.
The PzIV-H is superior to the F/2 which we SHOULD NEVER SEE IN THE GAME. Only 175 were made in total!
Compared to more than 3700+ PzIV-H(the most produced tank in the war) or 7000+ StuG-G(most produced AFV in the war). (for Germany, both).
The F/2 and StuG F/8 were some of the rarest AFVs of Germany, so we shouldn't even see them let alone play them in every single map.
KV-1s SHOULD NOT APPEAR ON BONDAREVO:
KV-1s Model 1942. Produced Aug 1942-Apr 1943
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technically most of the F/2's were renamed ausf G once they started being fielded, at least from what I understand. So if this is correct we should have at the minimum the ausf G not F2. Though I do agree Id like to see the ausf H as it is slightly better and looks allot better too.
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First of all, no need for yelling. Im going to say this one more time, because you still dont understand what im talking about.
If we could get the IVH, we should get rid of the IV F2 for early war maps. Yes, including 42. Seeing longbarrelled PzIV in 42 would be a very rare occasion, especially during the summer offensive. As you mentioned yourself, the F2 was made in laughable numbers(G-types:1700, between May42-June43, IOW ~150/month).
The StuG OTOH is purely cosmetic. The F/8 has the same armor, the same gun etc.(at least in the game). The only difference would be the MGs.
Again, game balance. Just like the ridiculously overmodelled SU-76 armor.
The KV is rather useless in this game. I wouldnt mind seeing him going forever.
The overall point is, I have yet to see russian tanks going head to head with germans and coming out as the winner in this game. That is especially true for the late war maps, less so in the early ones(ok K
If we could get the IVH, we should get rid of the IV F2 for early war maps. Yes, including 42. Seeing longbarrelled PzIV in 42 would be a very rare occasion, especially during the summer offensive. As you mentioned yourself, the F2 was made in laughable numbers(G-types:1700, between May42-June43, IOW ~150/month).
The StuG OTOH is purely cosmetic. The F/8 has the same armor, the same gun etc.(at least in the game). The only difference would be the MGs.
Again, game balance. Just like the ridiculously overmodelled SU-76 armor.
The KV is rather useless in this game. I wouldnt mind seeing him going forever.
The overall point is, I have yet to see russian tanks going head to head with germans and coming out as the winner in this game. That is especially true for the late war maps, less so in the early ones(ok K
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kabex said:
I suppose this explains why the Stug and Panzer III (I think its the III) drivers get an all-around view even though there's NO way they could drive with their head out that hatch?
If you want equal numbers of tanks per side you already have to lose accuracy. The Germans were ridiclously outproduced by the Russians alone, and had to send tanks to the African and later the Western front as well.
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