Tactics Tank Gunnery / Ranges question

[Musketeer]

The thing is you shouldn't be able to know that you hit at 1000-1200 yards. I'm guessing you are basing this claim on the ability to "hear" the metalic clank when you hit. Versus no sound if you over shoot or bury the round in the ground. Lets see, if it takes the round several seconds to travel to hit the target. It should take the return sound a good 5 seconds to return for you to "hear" it. I seriously doubt that in RL you would hear that over the sounds of battle.

If the shot bounces you can easily tell if it was on.

If it hits and explodes it typically explodes with a black cloud. If it hits the gorund there is an earth colored explosion from the ground impact.

Nothing improves gunnery like a couple rounds of Orel. Before you know it you will be making 1,000 meter shots.

 

[Dart]

This game have not a clue what tank is

Realistc world you can whit panther tank destroy T34 tank at 1800M , T 34 tank need drive at least 1200M from panher tank and tank have 10-30% succeed destroy tank from front side if have lucky
Ps,and tank model T34/85 can do that T 34 have no hope from front side
and all early axis tank can't destroy T 34 tank only back side if hit from engine ventil.
Pss. then are bunker destroyer tanks kv2 but that are another storie

Sorry mine bad english and happy tank hunt in game

 

[Gardner]

Higher=Over, Lower=Under

Higher=Over, Lower=Under

Recce,

Don't know about Russians because I've never been one and don't plan on it, but as for German tanks....

As a rule of thumb, set your range over by one click for targets that are at a higher elevation than you and under by one click for targets at a lower elevation. This is because gravity is extending your effective range if shooting downward and decreasing your effective range if shooting upwards.

As a former Vulcan and Bradley gunner in real life, I understand the importance of range estimation and battlesight zeroing. The first thing I do when I jump into a tank is battlesight zero the gun to 500m, battlecarry the appropriate ammunition, and traverse to the 1 o'clock position before jumping back into the driver's seat. My battle drill upon contact then is to immediately cock the tank left to angle my armor, and when I jump in the turret my range is ready and the target should be in my scope.

Interesting to note that I do set a different battlesight zero depending on the map. On Arad, for example, I go with 600m when I first start out and decrease to 400m when I take up my favorite positions on objectives (won't reveal those for now). On a map such as Hedgehog or Bondarevo, where the terrain and muggy humid air decreases effective engagement ranges, I battlesight zero at 300m. Also, remember to immediately change your ammo to the APCR in a Panzer III because that will provide better ballistic characteristics and penetration at closer ranges. Finally, if you notice that you have several good tankers on your team in their own right, jump in a StuG III or Pz IV and battlecarry HE ammunition in order to keep the damn AT rifles and stolen fausts away from your teammates and out of the buildings; let your buddies do the tank killing. Also, if the Russian tank is angled such that every AP round seems to be glancing, a few HE rounds will soften him up enough for an AP coup de gr

 

[Recce]

The thing is you shouldn't be able to know that you hit at 1000-1200 yards. I'm guessing you are basing this claim on the ability to "hear" the metalic clank when you hit. Versus no sound if you over shoot or bury the round in the ground. Lets see, if it takes the round several seconds to travel to hit the target. It should take the return sound a good 5 seconds to return for you to "hear" it. I seriously doubt that in RL you would hear that over the sounds of battle.

I believe it's a feature of the UT engine that sound travels at the speed of light.

The reason that I have trouble believing people hitting at ranges over 1000m is I've heard that the engine doesn't draw them, but rather "hazes" it out. Not sure if this applies to viewing with magnification or not, but I think so. So the real question becomes, is the 1000m on a straight line to the viewed target / object or on the X-axis.

If it is on 1000m on the X-axis, then a target / object can still be seen at ranges over 1000m (and as a developer, that's how I would code it). Also, if the gunner needs to take the elevation into account when setting the range, then the dialed range is not the true range.

Midshipman says that when shooting downhill, you set the range lower. And for uphill, you set the range higher.

 

[Recce]

As a rule of thumb, set your range over by one click for targets that are at a higher elevation than you and under by one click for targets at a lower elevation. This is because gravity is extending your effective range if shooting downward and decreasing your effective range if shooting upwards.

As a former Vulcan and Bradley gunner in real life, I understand the importance of range estimation and battlesight zeroing.

Hi Gardner,

you got your post in while I was writting my last. I'd orignally hoped that someone who's trained in gunnery would answer my post.

The thing that got me thinking was, "if I'm pointing the muzzle below the horizon, the shell has a larger downwards component than if I was aiming above the horizon. So the shell should land sooner". But at the some time, I was thinking along the same lines you've stated. But I'm not going to argue with a professional.

But, I would like to know about the lower velocity guns, like the Pz IV F/1. I do like the high arch the shell takes when firing at distance, although the AP just bounces off everything. I'm assuming it's behaving like the higher velocity Panther round, just that the gravity effects it "sooner".

I've tried the APCR on the"quickie tank range". The APCR will go through the front armour of the JS-2 at 750m, while the AP just bounces off the front plate. I think the APCR is definately supiriour best up to 800m, if not 1000m.

Adnauseam and I both love the StuG III, espically on the Orel map. The low profile is great in the wheat fields, where you almost disappear from view. Rate of fire is excellent. So swapping between HE and AP is not a problem. And working in a platoon of 3 crewed tanks means you have good visibility and can handle most contacts pretty roughly.

Hope to "meet" you in a tank some time.

 

[Gardner]

Pz IV F1 Watermelon Catapult

Pz IV F1 Watermelon Catapult

But, I would like to know about the lower velocity guns, like the Pz IV F/1. I do like the high arch the shell takes when firing at distance, although the AP just bounces off everything. I'm assuming it's behaving like the higher velocity Panther round, just that the gravity effects it "sooner".

Recce,

Honestly, I don't find much use for the Pz IV F1 other than infantry support at stationary targets using HE. The low muzzle velocity means that the round has to arc so much more to go any distance than an equally weighted round at higher muzzle velocity. This means that you have to really be good with your ranging estimation +/- 100m to get a burst-on-target, whereas the higher velocity guns give you about +/- 300m or greater room for error.

You're original question is starting to give me horrible flashbacks of vectors and sh!t now from physics. Thanks for the migraine!

 

[{2.SS} von Halen]

Gardner,

Saw your post. Sounds like you're a good candidate for the best tank platoon in RO.. 2nd SS "Das Reich" PanzerZug.

I am an ex-armor guy myself and can definitely appreciate the real world skills applying directly to this game.

Give us a look at www.das-reich.org and I hope we see you posting a request to join up on our forum.

I'm going to send you some more information about our PanzerZug and how we operate on PM. Like you, I don't want to give too much away to the Russkies!

 

[Recce]

You're original question is starting to give me horrible flashbacks of vectors and sh!t now from physics. Thanks for the migraine!

Sorry

I also wanted to avoid getting my old math books out and looking up calculus.

Thinking about it, you're probably the guy to answer some peoples questions about tank angling in the real world. Extra protection versus getting your tracks blown off.

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[Gardner]

What's this about angling?

What's this about angling?

Recce,

I think an entire thread could be started about the tank angles game...actually, it probably has, but I have neither the time nor patience to search for it. Skirts, ammunition types, and ranges all have something to do with that topic. Optimally, the effective thickness of your flank and frontal armor when you drop a perpendicular to the enemy's gun should be equal...this makes it a delicate game of how much flank to expose. If you have Schurtzen (skirts), then it's very beneficial to expose as much flank as possible toward an enemy firing HEAT shaped charges (Panzerfaust, RPG, Bazooka, etc.) or HESH rounds. However, if you have an enemy firing APFSDS-T (sabot) or other high-density, high-velocity penetrators, sometimes it's best just to take it head-on in order to utilize your thick mantlet, frontal hull, and glacis slopes and present the smallest target width. Reactive armor also seems to work better if you don't angle your tank at all.

In this game, given the types of munitions and tanks involved, I think firing over the 11 or 1 o'clock position offers the most optimal armor solution for keeping a reasonable silhouette while deflecting most of the Soviet rounds.

If you could point me to a thread on this, I'd love to check out the discussion. Keep in mind that I have been in antiaircraft for 15+ years and my Vulcan and Bradley fighting vehicle time was only a bit over 2 of that, but I did learn a lot about the Abrams when I did Cadet Troop Leader Time as an armor PL one summer while at West Point.

Oscha. von Halen,

I'm flattered by the offer to join your unit and like your site. I also appreciate the tips you sent on email.

However, I'm a bit hesitant to enlist in a Waffen-SS unit given the amount of Nazi bullsh!t that I have to suffer listening through on VOIP during some battles. I'd be more inclined to join a regular Heer or Luftwaffe ground division given that.

At any rate, I'll consider it and be on the watch for your unit on the servers.

Heia Safari!

 

[{2.SS} von Halen]

I'm a bit hesitant to enlist in a Waffen-SS unit given the amount of Nazi bullsh!t that I have to suffer listening through on VOIP during some battles.

I hear those comments as well sometimes. There are always people on the internet whose greatest joy is to put down something someone else is doing. As it doesn't take much intelligence or imagination to take shots at wargamers who choose to play in the historical role of a Waffen SS unit fighting on the Eastern Front, those comments are out there. I personally give them the level of attention I feel they deserve. None.

The RO community has established rules for Realism units to follow and if we unintentionally screw up, as I did the other day posting a sig graphic that had SS runes on it, we make corrections and drive on. As for me personally, hell no I'm not a Nazi. I'm a wargamer. I'm just here for the flashy black Panzer uniforms and the Mk V Panther. hehe

Anyway, the whole Realism unit debate has been beaten to death on the forums already, and I don't want to see it take this one over. Again, you sound like a guy any unit would be proud to have on their roster as a tanker, especially a Realism Community unit with their campaign about to start. Hope you find you a unit and enjoy this game as part of a team. Good luck in your search, and we'd be very happy to see you with 2nd SS "Das Reich"!

 

[Druidor]

Getting the Alied tanks arrow pointer just above the target normally gives a hit on Arad fron nort field to axis spawn hill crest.

Orel takes a bit more practice as you normally are ranging a lot further away.

I personelly have not realy tried the range adjustment using the lean keys, instead rely on experience of how the shells travel & also looking for the different effects (Bounce off, dirt, tank smoke) but it is the clink of a round hitting that helps best.

Good bit of video that, has given me some pointers for the PRTD useage & also if it does that with the gun the tank will surly triumph.

 

[{2.SS} von Halen]

I personelly have not realy tried the range adjustment using the lean keys, instead rely on experience of how the shells travel & also looking for the different effects (Bounce off, dirt, tank smoke) but it is the clink of a round hitting that helps best.

One thing I think you'll appreciate if you ever do start to use the range setting feature is that once you have your target ranged in, you have the ability to back up to turret down or behind cover while you're re-loading, come back to a firing position, and easily relay the reticle aiming point for another hit.

If you use "burst on target" gunnery and have to make manual correction of your reticle aiming point above or below the target, it's a lot harder to get the same aiming point back after you have re-positioned your vehicle between rounds.

Happy Tanking!

 

[Witzig]

for the best tank platoon in RO.. 2nd SS "Das Reich" PanzerZug.

Overconfidence comes before the Downfall

Ever played against Project ?

 

[Theodrake]

If the shot bounces you can easily tell if it was on.

If it hits and explodes it typically explodes with a black cloud. If it hits the gorund there is an earth colored explosion from the ground impact.

Nothing improves gunnery like a couple rounds of Orel. Before you know it you will be making 1,000 meter shots.

What kind of video card do you have because I sure can't see the round bouncing in the air at 1000+ meters or the dirt splashing. I play Orel and I can't tell if I hit with no effect or the round went into the dirt.

 

[Witzig]

What kind of video card do you have because I sure can't see the round bouncing in the air at 1000+ meters or the dirt splashing. I play Orel and I can't tell if I hit with no effect or the round went into the dirt.

Before your fire go to the cupola (not binoculars) and fire, than switch to binoculars and watch your round. This is only advised to do against Stationary Targets, and when no one is near to hurt you while looking around.

 

[Aelius]

Not sure if it helps anyone but I strongly suggest people check out the PTRD video floating around. You can get an accurate look at where to target tanks for one hit kills every single time.

It essentially turns the game into a situation where "if you are lucky to hit spot A, B, C, or D, regardless tank caliber, you can kill any tank in one hit."

You need good gunnery and being able to range targets properly, especially in a tank, but it shows how pointless penetration is in the game.

The game is essentially a sniper fest where the tank with the highest gun velocity/speed ratio wins. Of course it helps that the Russians also have the fastest tank and sloped (make anything deflect) armor.

Sorry if I seem like I'm whining.

 

[Witzig]

Well actually Penetration Matters, the PTRD seems to ignore Armor on some Occasion but this is more of a bug imho.

With the early War Russian Tanks you have a lot of trouble penetrating the Tiger, even from the Sides you need to be positioned well.

And that Tanks blow up when you hit the Ammo Storage, is quite okay imho.

 

[HotDang]

A handy tip to look for shots hitting their targets.

Line up shot
Pop out of turret
press fire
get your binocs out and look


If you shoot from inside and then try to get ur binocs out, you wont make it in time to see it.

 

[Theodrake]

Before your fire go to the cupola (not binoculars) and fire, than switch to binoculars and watch your round. This is only advised to do against Stationary Targets, and when no one is near to hurt you while looking around.

Ok. Thought I had tried that and the gun wouldn't fire. I'm having issues with keys that stop function. Maybe I'm just trying to fire the gun to soon after unbuttoning.

 

[Recce]

Ok. Thought I had tried that and the gun wouldn't fire. I'm having issues with keys that stop function. Maybe I'm just trying to fire the gun to soon after unbuttoning.

It does work, if you're not looking through the binos.
You can also adjust the sight range, but as you have no idea what you are setting it to.......

The only problem I have is when using my mouse scroll button, I tend to button-up, rather than lower the binos. So I'm popping in and out like a demented rabbit.