MG suggestions.

[Rameusb5]

As far as I'm concerned, the "Top of the scalp" PoV is a total myth. I did a lot of testing with multiple accounts to get some screenshots of this, and in every case, the POV was fine, so long as leaning wasn't involved.

In the case of leaning, the first person PoV DOES indeed go further LATERALLY than the 3rd person model leans, and this is a problem. But it is NOT the same exact issue (though it is similar).


There's only one case that I've found where someone was able to show a screenshot where they could see above an obstical, but couldn't be seen, and that was done with the 3rd person camera. Since it was on a custom map, I haven't been able to load it locally (it was the koitos44 map I think).



I want to be crystal clear here. The Tip of the head POV is a MYTH.

 

[Oi!Oi!Oi!]

I think the German MGs are very unrealistic, the DP seems spot on, though.

The German MGs were very very accurate(in the game they are complete crap) for example the MG42's effective range on a tripod was 1000meters, in-game it doesn't hit the broad side of a barn at 50 meters, I think that's bull.

Also, the MG34 is very innacurate in single fire, as has been stated. I think the accuracy of the MG34 is very good compared to the MG42, but still not there. The MG42 is just a complete joke.

You also need to have German-specific abilities, like clipping belts, or using ammo boxes instead of belts. Ammo boxes carried 250 rounds each.

Also, I'd like to be able to crouch or lean a long way either side to protect myself(suggest here) and reload etc from that position.

I would also like to see experienced gunnery, such as reloading really fast or changing the barrel really fast. In the game it seems like the gunner is just having a pic nic or something, an experienced gunner in combat would reload/change barrels so damn fast.

I would also like to see MG suppression effects increased a LOT, in order to stop soldiers from picking them off at 200 meters... it sucks. If you hit near him he should be blurred for a few good seconds.

A belt/250rnd ammo box for the MG34 would be very nice.

If bigger belts are implemented I'd like to see jams/etc with the clearing animations and all that.

Amen.

 

[Mormegil]

I'd just like to point out that the suppression effects of the MG will be greatly increased when/if TW can implement bullet penetration. That would keep people away from the edges of obstacles, making it harder to pop up and shoot.

It's been mentioned before, but I'd also like the ability to raise your head from IS, and walk the tracers. It works pretty well with the BA64's MG.

I'd also like to agree with the optics shaking in the tank MG's are over done.

 

[Fetterhoff]

As far as I'm concerned, the "Top of the scalp" PoV is a total myth. I did a lot of testing with multiple accounts to get some screenshots of this, and in every case, the POV was fine, so long as leaning wasn't involved.

In the case of leaning, the first person PoV DOES indeed go further LATERALLY than the 3rd person model leans, and this is a problem. But it is NOT the same exact issue (though it is similar).


There's only one case that I've found where someone was able to show a screenshot where they could see above an obstical, but couldn't be seen, and that was done with the 3rd person camera. Since it was on a custom map, I haven't been able to load it locally (it was the koitos44 map I think).



I want to be crystal clear here. The Tip of the head POV is a MYTH.

This is not true i have witnessed it first hand, when you can see no other portion of the enemies body and he shoots you. then you were just shot from a helmet. Test more dude.

 

[Dr.Luuvalo]

As far as I'm concerned, the "Top of the scalp" PoV is a total myth. I did a lot of testing with multiple accounts to get some screenshots of this, and in every case, the POV was fine, so long as leaning wasn't involved.

In the case of leaning, the first person PoV DOES indeed go further LATERALLY than the 3rd person model leans, and this is a problem. But it is NOT the same exact issue (though it is similar).


There's only one case that I've found where someone was able to show a screenshot where they could see above an obstical, but couldn't be seen, and that was done with the 3rd person camera. Since it was on a custom map, I haven't been able to load it locally (it was the koitos44 map I think).



I want to be crystal clear here. The Tip of the head POV is a MYTH.

Well, yesterday when I was playing Basovka as a russian rifleman, I was shot by a german sooldier who was in a trench, and of whom i could only see the upper half of his helmet. He didn't kill me immediately, only after blasting away almost his whole clip and hitting me in the extermities a few times. When he started firing I stareted to wonder that where he was. I was a bit puzzled by the fact that this helmet right in fron of me was firing at me, i could see flashing from the trench he was in.

Also, today I observed a russian mg shoot at my team from behind a sandback wall. I was quite near him, 30 - 40 meters, and all i could see of him was the muzzle flashes and traser ammunition coming my way. His weapon definitely was not above the sandbacks, nor were his eyes. I leaned from behind another sandback wall, and tried to shoot at the muzzle flashes but couldn't hit him. After a few shots he started to shoot at me too. We changed shot for a while, but we just couldn thit each other.

I have noticed similar thing many other times, but these two are just fresh in memory. Perhaps I'm imagining things, it wouldn't be a surprise, but if it is so, the delusions are convinsing indeed.

Also, real life machine guns are effective long range weapons. That's the way they sort of revolutionalized warfare. For example, even a dozen of great war era riflemen are not very effective at a range of 500 meters, but a single mg can make a platoon worth of men to hit the dirt, and some of them permanently. Both MG34 and MG42 could be eguipped with optics for long range shooting, special sights for indirect fire, and even their iron sights could be used for at least to a range of a kilometer.

 

[Rameusb5]

If he's shooting your extremeties, then all that proves is he can see your legs. Which is entirely possible even if you can't see his eyeballs.


I'm opening a challenge to the community. Show some screenshots where YOU can see the other player's EYEBALLS but they cannot see yours.

Here's mine:

http://www.current.net/rameusb5/8.jpg

As you can see, the German player is behind some sandbags and has his rifle deployed on the sandbags. The Russian player (image on teh right), can see his entire head just fine.

 

[kapulA]

Well,you mostly get sniped cause you have no rifleman to cover your ass,
I tried that tactic on pub with fullmj|bionic and we were quite sucessful...

 

[S.h.r.i.k.e.]

I agree that the MG34 and especially the MG42 don't feel or work like they realistically should. Something needs to be done with them!

 

[Ron]

Well i believe the single biggest problem with mgs is there is no PENETRATION of world objects, just today i was taking cover from a mg behind a car now in real life i most likely would have died given that it would have in rl only offered a visual shiel from the mg not a bullet stopping one.

 

[Comrade Wasabi]

A point about ammo boxes:

If an MG42 MG-Schutze gets killed, look at how the MG42 ammo is left on the ground.

It's in BOXES! With the end of the belt hanging out, but in a box.

Rame, that screenshot is nullified as you're not leaning. The leaning is where the big issue comes into play.

 

[Mylo42]

I agree with whoever is saying the MGs need tweaking. They don't seem to have the effectiveness that they should. I think that the recoil should be less and accuracy better, particularly when rested. An MGer should REALLY be able to keep heads down with that thing. As it stands now, they seem more like a liability than an asset because the MGer runs a huge risk of getting picked off every time he fires the thing.

 

[kabex]

"Effective Range" doesn't mean the range that you can put a single bullet into a man sized target.

First of all, you didn't even read my post. You assumed I was talking out of my ass.
I never said effective range was 100% accurate sniping range, I said effective range, I know what that means.

I said 1000 meters, or 1 kilometer. Not 1000 yards. 1 kilometer is the maximum possible distance in the game.

MGs were used as long range weapons also, not just medium. That's why the MG34 and MG42 have long barrels, so they can be used at long ranges.

I said, on a tripod. On a tripod the recoil is minimum, so the gun will be much more accurate, it was just an example I know it's not going to be the same on a tripod.

On a bipod, I believe the effective range is 600 meters. In the game, the effective range doesn't reach 100 meters, IMO.

And yes, the MG42 was very accurate, so much that they weren't very pleased with this, because the MG was supposed to have a greater dispersion rate in order to hit the most targets. In short bursts, it was very very accurate.

People here in the forum have extensive training with the MG3 which is just about as accurate as an MG42(only very slightly moreso) and they have said that the MG42 in-game is complete bull.

A point about ammo boxes:

If an MG42 MG-Schutze gets killed, look at how the MG42 ammo is left on the ground.

It's in BOXES! With the end of the belt hanging out, but in a box.

Rame, that screenshot is nullified as you're not leaning. The leaning is where the big issue comes into play.

They are boxes... but the real boxes were 250 rounds each.

In fact, I don't think they used 100 round belts, they used 120 round belts.

 

[SiC-Disaster]

make MG's supress more.. im allways schutze/strelok, and on kauk, the german mg cant scare me.. im standing on top of the courtyard wall, and that mg's firing at me.. i duck down, get up a bit farther to whatever side, while aiming, aim, pop a shot and confirm my kill to the team, so they know its safe to pop their heads back up and shoot the climbing infantry down again ^^
this way the MG does nothing to support the germans on kaukasus, except exposing itself with his tracer rounds.. more blur/blackening for the mg

 

[Phoenix-D]

First of all, you didn't even read my post. You assumed I was talking out of my ass.
I never said effective range was 100% accurate sniping range, I said effective range, I know what that means.

I said 1000 meters, or 1 kilometer. Not 1000 yards. 1 kilometer is the maximum possible distance in the game.

Yards and meters are about the same length, just so you know. And the in-game gun has a bipod..

MGs were used as long range weapons also, not just medium. That's why the MG34 and MG42 have long barrels, so they can be used at long ranges.

I said, on a tripod. On a tripod the recoil is minimum, so the gun will be much more accurate, it was just an example I know it's not going to be the same on a tripod.

On a bipod, I believe the effective range is 600 meters. In the game, the effective range doesn't reach 100 meters, IMO.

It'd be rather difficult to even SEE the target at 600 meters without optics. You might get some kills on a group, and maybe some surpression, but aimed fire? I doubt it.

And yes, the MG42 was very accurate, so much that they weren't very pleased with this, because the MG was supposed to have a greater dispersion rate in order to hit the most targets. In short bursts, it was very very accurate.

People here in the forum have extensive training with the MG3 which is just about as accurate as an MG42(only very slightly moreso) and they have said that the MG42 in-game is complete bull.

Another in this thread has said the exact opposite. Perhaps the bipod vs tripod is that much of a difference?

 

[kabex]

Effective range isn't the same as accuracy. I am quite aware of the fact that it is indeed accurate up to several hundred metres; with the MG3 I can hit soldiers 400 metres away after 2 - 3 bursts of 2 - 5 rounds per burst. Due to wind etc you need to have a few bursts to see where the bullets hit. Hitting people 1km away is rather hard irl though, at least with bipod only, though it is possible and I have seen it being done[this is on a BIPOD!!!!]. The operator was an expert with the weapon, with years of experience.

I have fired somewhere between 15 - 20.000 rounds with the MG3 and as I have already stated, the accuracy is very good even at 300 - 400 metres, you can hit a 1m x 1m target easily if you have the experience.

Small bursts with 2 - 6 rounds are very accurate - something they definately aren't in the game. Even a long burst of 10 - 20 rounds is quite accurate.
Keeping the trigger pressed for longer won't make the recoil alot worse, it will simply leave the gunner a bit shaken and thus you won't hit as easily. Shaken because of your cheek getting alot of vibration while aiming through the ironsights.

Standing with the MG3:
... isn't a problem. You feel the recoil alot more of course, and it does drag somewhat to the right, but it doesn't have much drag upwards, again due to the weight. With your feet firm, left in front of right foot, and a good grip on the bipod (as close to the barrel as you can), you can fire off 2 - 5 round bursts accurately at anything from 5 to at least 30 - 40 metres.

It'd be rather difficult to even SEE the target at 600 meters without optics. You might get some kills on a group, and maybe some surpression, but aimed fire? I doubt it.

When did I say you could see him clearly and up in your face? When did I said you could hit him in a single shot every single time? Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I said effective range this is real, accurate information from real sources. I am not pulling these numbers out of my ass.

I think you're just voicing your opinion, and opinions don't matter here. Please go ahead and find a source that says the effective range of the MG42 is 2 meters.

Another in this thread has said the exact opposite. Perhaps the bipod vs tripod is that much of a difference?

You're not reading my posts again. I explained the difference between tripod and bipod.

First of all, the tripod has optics which are a lot of help, but for comparision the effective range for the MG42 on a tripod is ~1000 meters, while on a bipod ~600 meters.

About the experienced MG3 gunner on this thread:

I've fired the MG3 (basically an MG42 with reduced ROF) in real life in the army and you simply can't fire off longer bursts at targets >100m with any kind of accuracy.

/
He said longer burts please read your posts carefully before posting them. I never said anything about long bursts being laser accurate.

 

[Phoenix-D]

About that "1m x 1m" target: That's three feet by three feet. In other words, that's a BIGGER target than you're going to see unless the person is standing bolt upright and facing you!

You also can't base performance off a very difficult shot performed by an operator with years of experience.

Effecive fire is impossible if you can't see the target, which is why I stated it that way. Check your sources- are they with or without optics? Tripod or bipod? Because the only sources I've found don't specify. I have no problems believing it'd work against a group at 1000m with a tripod. I do have issues with the gunner being able to pick out and effectively engage a single soldier at those ranges.

'tis a bit moot anyway, most maps in RO you're lucky to get 500m.

As long as we're playing 'please read':

I think the accuracy of MGs in RO is quite fine.

EDIT: basiclly while I think the MGs need to be toned up a *little*, and a few bugs fixed, their relative accuracy is comparable to the other RO weapons. Everything seems to be a bit less accurate than in RL in RO. You only see the pop up and shoot issue because there are no penetrations are people don't care if they bite it.

 

[|ULF|_Monkeyman]

I would like for the MGer to have some kind of ability to duck when positioned behind an object, but still keep the MG deployed. I would also like the MGer to have the ability to reload while in this ducked/deployed position.

Agreed..perhaps the ability to lean(slightly slower than other weapons classes) right or left a bit or perhaps a slightly slower duck move?

 

[Dheepan]

I love using the mg42 in hedgehog. Basically the mg42 in RO is only useful if you spray more rounds than you think you need to kill a target. It's practically the ppsh of mg's. If i am against a riflemen I just shoot bullets to keep him down like 1 or 2, then unload after a pause. That tactic works well against pop-up riflemen.

ANd yes the mg34 single shot seems to be less accurate than it was in teh mod --
There are no tracers on the single shot because it's a single shot, btw. In RO tracers are suppose to be 1 in every 5 Rounds.

 

[ZBrisk]

All this talk about bipods and tripods gives me an idea. How about being able to select one or the other in the class selection screen?

The bipods would deploy a bit faster, but the tripods would be a little more accurate.

 

[Wiglaf]

Personally I feel usefullness of mg's is underrated. Could be fault of underated bibod and I'm not sure how well recoil-code takes into account the fact that yuor firing from big gun too (mg weights considerably more than smg)