Letter "V" on US, Wehrmacht and Israeli tanks?

[Bolt]

Guys, can someone please explain, what does this "V" symbol means? I see them a lot on TV and in games, but i don't know what are they for? I know there are some US tankers on this forum, maybe they could help with this issue?

Messerschmidt

Merkava

Abrams

Any ideas, any one?

 

[Tomcat_ha]

interesting question.

 

[JudgeMental]

Identification marks, assist in identifying vehicles as friendly. That was the case for Op Granby (First Gulf War) and Op Telic (Second). I beleive the Americans gave them far 'punchier' names than us though.
For Granby we also had shielded red lights on top of our vehicles, visible only from above to enable the various coalition pilots to identify our vehicles as friendly. For Telic we had IR reflectors too.
The ME109 mark is a squadron ID mark I think though WW2 aviation is not my bag.

 

[KrazyKraut]

Thew "v" on the 109 is really a "corner" marking a plane of the staff. Staff planes were marked with symbols, while ordinary planes were marked with numbers. A corner usually meant this was a Gruppenadjutant, while for example a Gruppenkommandant (group commander) would have a double corner on his plane.

 

[JudgeMental]

Thew "v" on the 109 is really a "corner" marking a plane of the staff. Staff planes were marked with symbols, while ordinary planes were marked with numbers. A corner usually meant this was a Gruppenadjutant, while for example a Gruppenkommandant (group commander) would have a double corner on his plane.

Whereas WW2 aviation is DEFFO his bag

Thanks mate

 

[KrazyKraut]

no problem
Actually if it wasn't for that book right in front of me I wouldn't have remembered.

"A smart person is not someone who knows everything, but who knows where to find everything." Dunno who said it, but I like it.

 

[Bolt]

Thanks for the answers, guys. But i have more questions.

JudgeMental, so you used those V markings to counter friendly-fire, right? But these V-letters are quite small and can't be seen from big distance, so one must be standing almost right next to the tank to see them. And Iraqi army didn't have US\NATO tanks, so that's a bit strange - your soldiers can easily identify, if they are looking at friendly Abrams or not so friendly T-72. Another question is why those V markings keep "rotating" - i mean, i saw some photos with tanks marked with V and some tanks marked with /\. And sometimes they were painted on turret, sometimes on the flank of the tank.. Why is that?
Thank you in advance.

KrazyKraut, thanks for the info, it makes all (Luftwaffe V-markings ) clear now.

 

[JudgeMental]

Thanks for the answers, guys. But i have more questions.

JudgeMental, so you used those V markings to counter friendly-fire, right? But these V-letters are quite small and can't be seen from big distance, so one must be standing almost right next to the tank to see them. And Iraqi army didn't have US\NATO tanks, so that's a bit strange - your soldiers can easily identify, if they are looking at friendly Abrams or not so friendly T-72. Another question is why those V markings keep "rotating" - i mean, i saw some photos with tanks marked with V and some tanks marked with /\. And sometimes they were painted on turret, sometimes on the flank of the tank.. Why is that?
Thank you in advance.

KrazyKraut, thanks for the info, it makes all (Luftwaffe V-markings ) clear now.

You would think it was easy to identify tanks or other armoured and soft skinned vehicles wouldn't you. Unfortunately in the heat of battle it is anything but. Hence the large number of 'blue on blue' or friendly fire incidents. The problem you have with identification marks is if you make them too big they will act as an aiming mark for enemy forces, therefore you have to judge what is the optimum size. You also have to tailer the size of the mark to the size of the space available. The argument that they would only be visible isn't quite accurate though as you would be engaging a tank through tank optics or similar weapons optics.If you were close enough to be engaging with small arms or LAW then hopefully, you would be close enough to see the signs or other recognition elements. I know I'm biased but yes, you're right, you would expect people could differentiate between the T72 or Abrams.......the Brits could
The American forces that engaged lead elements of 36 Engineers obvously couldn't though. Thankfully, their aim was as bad as their recognition.
As I said in the earlier post though, that was just one element of identifying friendly forces, reflectors, lights and safe templates were others.

 

[Bolt]

Oh, i see. The more identification marks, the better, right? And this V is one of them? Thanks, mate!

 

[Reddog]

I always thought the V signified the command vehicle

 

[myzko]

well it has something to do with the US Coalition!

 

[UncleDrax]

I believe they are actually called "Chevron"s.. not V's :]

The way I understand it is it's just a unit marking.. the chevron appearently being the Heraldic symbol for 'support'.

The orientation of the Chervons indicate some sort of organization factor.. that is 'B Squadron', '1st tank platoon'.. etc..

As for 'more markings the better'... well.. no.. markings should be clear, obvious, and concise.. :]


I'm sure there's alot more to it then I'm aware of.. and I might be totally wrong..

 

[DingBat]

I always thought the V signified the command vehicle

Ahem, I might point out that it would be a little silly of you to mark your command vehicles in such a way that the enemy could easily detect them. Sounds like the kind of scheme a private or corporal would come up with.

I always thought the chevrons indicated platoon or troop.

 

[JudgeMental]

Look at the side of a british tank and you will see 0B for squadron leaders tank, 0C for 2 i/c squadron, the troops would then be marked up 10 for 1st troop leader 11 first troop sergeant and 12 first troop corporal. Commanding Officers tank 11B 2 i/c regiment 22B.
The chevrons are NOT regimental/troop identifiers....at least not in the British Army

 

[Deathsai]

I thought the V's stood for the number of the tank or what platoon or company a tank was in, at least on the Abrams.

 

[Bolt]

Ahem, I might point out that it would be a little silly of you to mark your command vehicles in such a way that the enemy could easily detect them. Sounds like the kind of scheme a private or corporal would come up with.

Indeed. I remember reading how german tank platoon commanders suffered because of the special cuppola on the turret. For some odd reason it atracked a huge amount of anti-tank shells. [i was like 12 that time, so i can be mistaken]

I've asked the same question on other forum, here's a picture posted by one user, who tried to explain, why there are no US, david stars instead of V.
http://forum.cnews.ru/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1797

 

[JudgeMental]

Command vehicle ID with the British Forces?
Dead easy, just look for the one with loads of antennas sticking out of it.
A typical challenger tank or warrior vehicle will have 2 antenna, one for their squadron or company net, one for their regimental net. A command vehicle will have 3 or more. Other important targets? the FOO (forward observation officer) who will have a warrior armoured vehicle stuffed full of radio and navigational gear.Many antennae. So much gear in fact, that the 30 mm Rarden cannon mounted to it isn't a rarden cannon at all, its a dummy. Its only there so at first glance the vehicle will be mistaken for a conventional warrior.Go figure

 

[DingBat]

Command vehicle ID with the British Forces?
Dead easy, just look for the one with loads of antennas sticking out of it.
A typical challenger tank or warrior vehicle will have 2 antenna, one for their squadron or company net, one for their regimental net. A command vehicle will have 3 or more. Other important targets? the FOO (forward observation officer) who will have a warrior armoured vehicle stuffed full of radio and navigational gear.Many antennae. So much gear in fact, that the 30 mm Rarden cannon mounted to it isn't a rarden cannon at all, its a dummy. Its only there so at first glance the vehicle will be mistaken for a conventional warrior.Go figure

Actually the germans did the same thing. They created what were called "panzerbefelswagens", or command vehicles, took the gunner out and added a second radio man. On many of those vehicles the gun was a dummy.

 

[KrazyKraut]

Yeah, iirc the Panzerbefehlswagen based on the Pz.III chassis was quite popular, even with the soviets who used them extensively whenever they captured some.