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is the overheated MG firing slower accurate?

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#23
Yes all weapons have a degradation in accuracy after prolonged firing.

With the MGs it is more marked because of the sheer volume of fire. A guy with a PPSH is unlikely under combat conditions to unload more than about 2-3 drums without a sizeable pause ocurring.

A MG in a defensive postion, or being used to supress an area however, may go through several ammo tins in quick succession.


This is what I meant with consistency. To be consistent, all the weapons should have more smoke around the muzzle after firing lots of rounds, and all weapons should suffer some form of accuracy impairment if you sit there going bananas at full auto.

Same with stoppages or cook-offs. If the devs could implement these as oppossed to just slowing the rate of fire down, it would be more realistic while also encouraging players to watch their rate of fire.
 
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#24
I wish it were possible to go through several ammo drums on a mg ingame. But after firing more than a few bursts the entire enemy team is drawn to your position like a moth to a light. So constant relocation is a must. I personally think the overheat function works well ingame, whether its consitant with reality doesnt bother me too much. I think the most game breaking thing for the mg is the lack of suppresion it supplies. Many times i am pooring fire on a stationary target that simply takes aim and kills me with a well aimed shot. In reality you would be afraid to lift a finger above cover for the fear of it being blown off, let alone enduring the fire and calmly aiming at the enemy.
 
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#26
MGs don't suppress in RO because players aren't scared to die. I've seen good MG players put the fear of God in the enemy team if they were just wiping everyone out spawn after spawn, but suppression in the form of keeping the enemy's heads down doesn't happen. This is just a weakness of the overall game design, and it would take huge changes to recify it.

Also, the Germans should get more machineguns. Late in the war, the Germans had the habit of supplying two machineguns per squad (a number that continues in most modern armed forces). A squad is usually eight to ten soldiers, so that would mean four MGs on a 32 player, infantry only map.
 
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#28
Byte Me said:
To my understading of how the MG's work (might be wrong though), is that the barrel seperates the gas from the bullets from touching any other part of the gun, really the only other part that would get hot, other than the barrel, would be the firing pin. Look here, I think this animation represents the MG42 (scroll down to middle of page, click and hold the trigger to start the animation): http://science.howstuffworks.com/machine-gun1.htm
As you can see there is not much else the hot gas can touch beyond the barrel, firing pin, and whatever else happens to be near hot gas comming out of the ejection port. Though this only explains the mg42 (if I was infact correct), so anyone with exstensive knowledge of the mg34 and DP please speak up.
Click to expand...
It's called friction.

The bolt travel within the receiver generates heat as well, you know you can weld some MG's shut if you fire them long enough.
 
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#29
Sorry to drop in to this so late, here is my two cents
Jack said:
Yes you are correct. MG barrels were changed out to keep accuracy and preserve the integrity of the barrle, not to keep the fire rate the same.


Accuracy degrades with extremely hot barrels, and at some point, the rifliings will begin to get messed up. You can "burn out" a barrel in real life if you just go cyclic on it for a long time.



Another thing is I don't know why barrels in RO smoke. Smoke makes since from gunpowder, but they shouldn't start smoking when they get hot, unless you are dropping water, oil or piss on the hot metal.
Click to expand...

Well if you really want to kill a graphics card we can ask the devs to geek out on high rez gun models, lighting, and heat ripple effects.

By the time a barrel has burned the outside oil coating the inside of the barrel with the rifling will be close to molten tempuratures
By the time Oil is gone you're about ready to have an accident

Barrel from prolonged firing will first give off heat waves
Accuracy degrades slightly
Black smoke will wisp up while oil gets real shiny then dissappears
Accuracy degrades badly
The heat waves , no smoke, and a red glow starts
Big chance of something really bad happening

Make that for all guns, each with it's own unique Heat characteristic and we have a CPU killer :p Be the Grand Turismo(PS2) of shooting games.
 
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#30
Yes, that's what I meant earlier when I said that if the barrel was really smoking that badly from overheating, you would have waited far too long in real life anwway, and would probably be having stoppages.



The solution seems to be not adding a bunch of fancy effects and calculations, just removing the fake smoke all together. Have accuracy degrade with barrel wear, but leave it up to the player to use his brain and change barrels every belt.
 
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#31
Reddog said:
It's called friction.

The bolt travel within the receiver generates heat as well, you know you can weld some MG's shut if you fire them long enough.
Click to expand...

Not with a properly designed MG like the 42 or 34.


The bolt and bolt carrier are essentially "floating" within the receiver, they actually touch relatively little. The assembly moves backward and forwards, but aside from stripping fresh rounds from the belt and contacting the return spring, there is little metal-on-metal contact.


Remember that the moving parts of the receiver run on cams and tracks, they aren't sliding across a surface constrained on all sides, like a bullet down a barrel. The heat in the barrel is a factor because as it expands, the bullet obviously has trouble traveling, leading to increased "stripping" from the jacket and ruining the riflings.


Granted, there is always friction present in the receiver. However, the amount of heat generated in the receiver due to friction is so miniscule compared to that of the barrel it is silly to even consider it.


The reason you can "weld some MGs shut" is not because of heat within the receiver. It happens when expansion of the barrel due to heat has risen to such a degree that you get stoppages, and/or the heat of the chamber causes rounds to prematurely fire, called a "cook-off."
 
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#33
I used to be an Mg gunner in the Norwegian army,we used the mg3 which is a "modern mg42" ,basicly the same gun.

My experience is that after 300 rounds ,the gun starts to jam if you don't change barrel.

I can confirm that is starts to smoke after a while, but then you should have changed barrel 100 rounds ago :)

Sorry for bad English
 
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#34
First off, the MGs in RO do not slow down when they overheat. The sound of the MG firing just pitches down slightly to indicate that your barrel is about to die. Second, the barrels in RO do not "Smoke" they steam. And while Steam might not happen under all climate conditions, when metal gets really hot it can cause the condensation in the air to turn to steam. Anyway, its a bit "pumped up" compared to real life, but the alternative is a lame hud "heat" indicator or for us to find some way to make your mouse get really hot when the barrel overheats :)
 
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#36
[RO]Ramm-Jaeger said:
First off, the MGs in RO do not slow down when they overheat. The sound of the MG firing just pitches down slightly to indicate that your barrel is about to die. Second, the barrels in RO do not "Smoke" they steam. And while Steam might not happen under all climate conditions, when metal gets really hot it can cause the condensation in the air to turn to steam. Anyway, its a bit "pumped up" compared to real life, but the alternative is a lame hud "heat" indicator or for us to find some way to make your mouse get really hot when the barrel overheats :)
Click to expand...


Sounds like a reasonable comprimise I guess. I think you put it well that it is "pumped up."

Like I said originally, that level of smoke/steam would be more prone if you had oil, water or piss :)D) on it than dry, like what happened in Saving Private Ryan when Captain Dye overdid the smoke effect on the MG42 in the "radar site" scene.

But all in all, I gues there is few other ways to indicate.



Interesting to hear that only the sound pitch changes...all this time I thought the fire rate was actually dropping.









PS: I would still prefer the hardcore route though and just rely on players to change barrels every 250 rounds with no indicators, sound or otherwise, but I guess a lot of people don't like the idea of that.
 
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#37
Anyone who thinks that machine gun smoke is fiction hasn't shot a real gun... or hasn't shot enough.

My AK-47 will start to smoke up after a hundred rounds or so, especially if I just shoot as fast as I can and if I don't give it time to cool off. I don't know what exactly is "smoking" but it might be the gun oil, it might be water vapor in the barrel, and it might even be the wooden stock itself. AR-15's (civilian semi-auto versions of the M-16 and M-4) will also do this. Smoking is what happens when a gun gets hot. It's that simple.

There's a video I saw a while back where the wooden stock of a guy's AK-47 actually caught on fire (he put close to a thousand rounds through it in a few minutes).

I couldn't find that video but I did find this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7zFLYBS-dg&search=ak 47 smoke

And if you have more time, here's a 62 Mb video of an AR-15 torture test (they put 1100 rounds through it):
http://www.gunsmokeenterprises.net/videos/GSEbroadbandVideo.wmv

Enjoy.
 
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