KonigsPlatz map-Why is the Siegess

[subhuman]

This is more a question that the map designers could answer.

In 1938's Hitler had the Siegsueele relocated/moved from it's original position in the KonigsPlatz in front of the Reichstag (where you see it in the game) to the centre of Tiergarten on the nearby Charlottenburger Chaussee which runs west from the Brandenburg Gates, at the centre of the roundabout where you find it today.

Why have the map designers incorrectly placed the Siegess

 

[Cluase Von Wittybrain]

Very nice.

But atleast give the AXIS some Cover LOL....It would be to easy to spot up the Tiger for the IS2's if it was not there.

But i see your point. Would be interesting to see how it would effect the map if it was removed.

 

[Hyperion2010]

The base was still there....

 

[Heinz]

I think the map should have a special "fuhrer & staff reinforcement morale bonus".

 

[King Ragnar]

The Furher is dead most likley and so will the rest of the generals, or they have at least fled Berlin By this time, even if they were still alive they would be locked away in the bunker.

 

[Steve Connors]

Ninjas

 

[Nebfer]

spawn ninjas?

 

[[RWTD]Ghost[BCthc]]

Even better...... Mystical Ninjas! Remember that Snes game?

 

[Porta_fin]

Omg! We need a robot-hitler to the map, like in Wolf3D!

 

[Heinz]

The Furher is dead most likley and so will the rest of the generals, or they have at least fled Berlin By this time, even if they were still alive they would be locked away in the bunker.

wow, now way. you're kidding, right?

Well, then we need a special "Martin Bormann special reinforcements moral bonus" then.

 

[MistaCreepy]

Omg! We need a robot-hitler to the map, like in Wolf3D!

LOL! Agreed!

 

[King Ragnar]

wow, now way. you're kidding, right?

Well, then we need a special "Martin Bormann special reinforcements moral bonus" then.

Sorry but its hard to tll when some people are being serious or not because there are so many idiots on these forums.

 

[Maxey]

No no no! We need jetpacks for the germans and parachute dogs that shoot bees from their mouths when they bark for the russians.

And when both teams meet at the center of the map, the Feet of God shall crush them do death.

Now that would be rad.

 

[[5.SS]VonHerrmann]

Do you know Bees can smell fear.....

 

[[RWTD]Ghost[BCthc]]

Do you know Bees can smell fear.....

Bee's? Fear? BEEER!!! I can smell BEEEER!

 

[SasQuatch]

Ok, back on topic, basically this is what went on:

We designed the map litterally (we had enough resources, so your findings are basically correct), without the Siegessaule base in place since it officially wasn't there. As you might have noticed, the collapsed underground area is already modeled in the map by the way, it only fully flooded later on (as far as i know) so we have added puddles in it to hint to that.

Testing the map performance wise and gameplay wise without this structure in place there were a couple of reasons to add the remainders of the old Siegessaule base and take a small side step in 'design space'.

1. We needed BSP and AP for optimization in the middle of the map, so we either needed a giant hill or some kind of structure
2. We needed to break the line of sight and line of fire
3. We needed a variation in objectives

So, came in the idea to add 'the remains of the siegesaule lower support structure and added a little bomb shelling on it. Just look at it like this: Germans took apart the Siegessaule, the basic support structure (which held the red stone plating and the bronze plaques) was 'undressed' and what was left was the naked structure of the base. Since the Konigsplatz more and more become a complete construction site (added axillary buildings like shown in our map were build early on, the appartment blocks north of the Reichstag were already torn down etc etc) it wasnt too far fetched to have the basic rough support construction remain there (to be torn down eventually).

That's why that small structure is there in our map.

 

[Steve Connors]

Ok, back on topic, basically this is what went on:

We designed the map litterally (we had enough resources, so your findings are basically correct), without the Siegessaule base in place since it officially wasn't there. As you might have noticed, the collapsed underground area is already modeled in the map by the way, it only fully flooded later on (as far as i know) so we have added puddles in it to hint to that.

Testing the map performance wise and gameplay wise without this structure in place there were a couple of reasons to add the remainders of the old Siegessaule base and take a small side step in 'design space'.

1. We needed BSP and AP for optimization in the middle of the map, so we either needed a giant hill or some kind of structure
2. We needed to break the line of sight and line of fire
3. We needed a variation in objectives

So, came in the idea to add 'the remains of the siegesaule lower support structure and added a little bomb shelling on it. Just look at it like this: Germans took apart the Siegessaule, the basic support structure (which held the red stone plating and the bronze plaques) was 'undressed' and what was left was the naked structure of the base. Since the Konigsplatz more and more become a complete construction site (added axillary buildings like shown in our map were build early on, the appartment blocks north of the Reichstag were already torn down etc etc) it wasnt too far fetched to have the basic rough support construction remain there (to be torn down eventually).

That's why that small structure is there in our map.

I still blame the ninjas

 

[Valac]

Nice read from you subhuman. I wish we had more posters taking your approach to these kind of questions.

 

[Ghad]

Nice thread Indeed.

KP is a very great map, anyways.

 

[subhuman]

Ok, back on topic,

Gee, have never seen so much irrelevant OT ranting.

basically this is what went on:

We designed the map litterally (we had enough resources, so your findings are basically correct), without the Siegessaule base in place since it officially wasn't there. As you might have noticed, the collapsed underground area is already modeled in the map by the way, it only fully flooded later on (as far as i know) so we have added puddles in it to hint to that.

Testing the map performance wise and gameplay wise without this structure in place there were a couple of reasons to add the remainders of the old Siegessaule base and take a small side step in 'design space'.

1. We needed BSP and AP for optimization in the middle of the map, so we either needed a giant hill or some kind of structure
2. We needed to break the line of sight and line of fire
3. We needed a variation in objectives

So, came in the idea to add 'the remains of the siegesaule lower support structure and added a little bomb shelling on it. Just look at it like this: Germans took apart the Siegessaule, the basic support structure (which held the red stone plating and the bronze plaques) was 'undressed' and what was left was the naked structure of the base. Since the Konigsplatz more and more become a complete construction site (added axillary buildings like shown in our map were build early on, the appartment blocks north of the Reichstag were already torn down etc etc) it wasnt too far fetched to have the basic rough support construction remain there (to be torn down eventually).

That's why that small structure is there in our map.

Cool. I think the map is awesome. Having actually been to Berlin and gone on a Thrid Reich walking tour that traces the path of the attacking Russian forces from the West, through the Zoo, across Moltke Bridge and to the Reichstag, I can testify the map certainly felt familiar even the first time I played it (except for the location of the Siegessaule ). However you have done a great job of modelling the Siegessaule itself.

A few more comments about the map:
- I am quite certain that the few tanks defending the Reichstag were Tiger 2's, and not Tiger 1's. Is the Tiger 1 featured in the game because you haven't modelled a Tiger 2 or becasue of some other (game balance) reason?
- I have seen others suggest the map be extend to include fighting INSIDE the Reichstag. I think this would be awesome. Having German snipers firing from the upper storeys and having a capture point on the upper level close to where the Russians hoisted the red flag woudl also be cool.

For your further interest, I have included some scans of some postcards I got from Berlin which show some awesome photos of the Reichstag area taken sometime after the end of the war in 1945 up to 1947. One shot dated as Berlin 1947 shows the wreck of a fighter engine/prop (a FW 190?) still sitting there south west of the Reichstag, between 1.5 - 2.5 years after the end of the war.

Reichstag 1945
Brandenburg Gate 1945
Reichstag 1946
Reichstag 1947

subhuman