Level Design What would be the best way to do this

[Six_Ten]

Modeler

Modeler

Since you're learning the basics I suggest you head over to www.anim8or.com and download Anim8or. Its a simple to learn (and free) modeler and there are many helpful tutorials on the forum there. It can build the walls you want very easily. If I were you I would simply trace the outline of the wall and gate shape, then extrude it.

 

[daschewy]

Well I found this tutorial:

http://mentallic.planetunreal.gamespy.com/Tutorial/Tute1Page1.html

 

[Lruce Bee]

Seriously - stick with my first suggestion and make such a simple structure out of BSP - all your small stuff and trims out of mesh etc - from what I'm seeing it looks like the only BSP you'll have in the level is the walls of that fort so it's really not worth debating - you'll thank me later

Colin

 

[daschewy]

Its not just the walls. This is what the whole fort looked like:




IDK I guess in the end it really isnt that many things that need to be made, Ill try making it out of BSP if I cant make it out of a SMS.

 

[Six_Ten]

What is the advantage of using BSP vs mesh?

 

[daschewy]

I think mesh loads a little bit better than BSP. I think once the mesh has loaded it loads permantently where as with BSP each time you look at a new BSP object you have to redraw it.

 

[Lruce Bee]

Well for me personally I like making major structures out of BSP - certainly for buildings when in the planning stages - don't bother with meshes until you're happy with the layout - the thing with BSP is that you can make big changes fast and make subtle changes very quickly to layout - add tunnels - carve out extra entry points in the walls and a ton of other stuff - you will probably want to stick with that for your initial construction - if you're making enterable buildings then almost always BSP shell with subtracted doorways etc - just makes your life so much easier later on if you want to move a door - add a window or extend the building etc - you can't do that if you make a mesh - it's just too much hassle - You will probably find that your large BSP walls will have no effect on performance if you've planned your level well in advance

Looking at your overhead there is obviously the potential to let your BSP run away with you but don't get hung up on what and where you can use it - you can always convert the bulk of your BSP to static mesh later on (but not in the editor!) - Good trick is to convert BSP model to .obj format and import your BSP model directly into your 3D modeling package for an accurate template for a clean model - For the central courtyard area choose which buildings you want to enter and construct those out of simple BSP - bottom line is that most maps will have BSP construction in it - there are not many maps that are made entirely of meshes

Lruce

 

[daschewy]

yeah BSP should be the way to go. I mean most of the buildings are pretty small and dont have roofs. Im sure I could make the whole fort out of BSP and be fine. There are definately some items that will need to be SMS's like some of the decorations and statues, but everything else looks like its gonna be a wall with a couple of subtractions here and there. The most important element will probably be a nice terrain (or not).

 

[UncleDrax]

What is the advantage of using BSP vs mesh?

Since it's coming up, some important differences:

- BSP is a 'software brush'.. most of it's calculated (iirc) is done on your CPU.

- Static Mesh (SM, SMS, etc..) is a 'hardware brush'.. it's done in your GPU, and likewise can be cached and copied without using extra vid-ram.

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- BSP will perform as a network occluder.. that is, your player will not be sent data happening behind a solid BSP brush. This is important for levels when you realize how many network actors there are.

- BSP can be used for Zoning (read up on zoning), static meshs cannot.

- BSP is not good for intricate detailing and very small objects. (use Meshs for that)

- Neither BSP or Static Mesh will occlude polygons hidden behind them. (This is what Anti-Portals are for.)

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As for use, I pretty much share Lruce's ideas :]

 

[daschewy]

Im guessing my level will not exceed 500/600 Brushes between everything. I think with the 2d editor and vertex editor I should be fine to do the major structural objects, and if any of our modellers have the time and can make me some nice SMS for some of the buildings/walls then I can just replace them.

 

[DeV]

Just don't make TOO complex BSP shapes, or lurking holes with Star Destroyers flying over your map will occur..Which is a phenomenon called BSP holes. Which makes BSP parts dissappear or casts huge shadows on spots where there should be no shadows (which is why i mentioned the star destroyer example).

 

[daschewy]

but for what I need to do it shouldn't be too complex, right? I mean the main area won't be that large, Im assuming its gonna be a bit longer and a good amount wider than the fort that is in kaukasus.

Also how many bsp brushes is too many bsp brushes?

 

[Six_Ten]

Models

Models

My level is almost entirely models -- Do I need to put inside the buidings BSP blocks and antiportals or just put the models in?

 

[[TW]DrGuppy]

If you have a big wall static mesh it would be a good idea to put a simple (like rectangle) shape BSP and an Anti Portal within the wall. The goal is to make the BSP and Anti Portals inside the mesh as simple a shape as possible (even a flat plane will do sometimes) and have it fit the static mesh as closely as possible. You're trying to occlude as much as possible with the least amount/complexity of the BSP and Anti Portals inside without going outside of the static mesh.

 

[SavetheJets]

If you have a big wall static mesh it would be a good idea to put a simple (like rectangle) shape BSP and an Anti Portal within the wall. The goal is to make the BSP and Anti Portals inside the mesh as simple a shape as possible (even a flat plane will do sometimes) and have it fit the static mesh as closely as possible. You're trying to occlude as much as possible with the least amount/complexity of the BSP and Anti Portals inside without going outside of the static mesh.

actually planes have an infinite depth therefore iirc they don't work, you need to have a volume for it to occlude...


iirc its been a while .....

 

[SasQuatch]

Sheets are a nono as far as AP's and network occlusion BSP goes... Use very thin boxes if you need to, but don't use sheets.

 

[Six_Ten]

How do I make the BSP blocks and antiportals fit models?

 

[DeV]

Well i presume you have a model of for example a wall. Which would be nice if that would get some optimizing in the form of anti portals. What you need to do is place the model, make a bsp wall of for example 3 units wide and a few units shorter then your mesh and place it inside the static mesh. Inside that bsp wall you can make an antiportal that is 1 unit wide and a few units shorter then your bsp wall so it basically sits inside your BSP brush.

 

[koetje]

judging from your fly-over picture, I would suggest the next:
(which is mostly like the above statements from the dev's)

Make your walls of the buildings etc. in bsp. , so you get the mayor large parts in bsp which can be edited pretty quick.
Then add some doorframes, windows, ruble piles and loose boulders out of static mesh. Those things would be repeating and you can reuse this stuff over and over. It would just load once in memory, and be used more then twice. Stuff like sandbags, rubble etc. would be pretty complex forms (if you wanna make them look good) and are better done in SM then in bsp.
Also you might make 2 or 3 textures for the same mesh (rubble) so it doesnt look the same. This can be done more quick and easily in maya then in bsp.

What i always try to do is make everything that is high detailed in SM and rough stuff like walls in bsp.
In your case you propably want to zone the houses so the use of antiportals isnt really an option. If you setup your zones right you propably dont need the antiportals.

Every map has its own challanges and needs different ways of optimisation. You have to judge every situation yourself, and you propably find beter solutions for different problems as you go along.

For example in my Dora map i had a really big SM, (of the dora itself) that could only be made in SM because it was to complex for bsp and it needed to move as it was destroyed (scripted sequence). Because it was a very high poly mesh i placed the gun in a trench and surrounded it by antiportals so it would be blocked from any angle in the map. Making zones wouldnt have worked because the map was 1 big open space. Later i found out that the gun in real life was also situated in a trench to protect it from air attacks.

 

[daschewy]

Yeah thats exactly what Im gonna do. I've been messing around with the 2d editor and it really doesnt seem that hard to make the things I need to make (at least for the destroyed walls).