It's a good tactic, do it. That is all.
Tactics Squad Leaders: Use your damn SMOKE!!!
- Thread starter Kowalczyk
- Start date
It's only a good tactic if they put it in the right places, smoking your own front lines is not the way to use it. Smoke the enemy's front lines!
Besides, on the majority of games I've played, Squad Leaders and the commander do use their smoke, not always correctly but at least they tried.
Besides, on the majority of games I've played, Squad Leaders and the commander do use their smoke, not always correctly but at least they tried.
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It's only a good tactic if they put it in the right places, smoking your own front lines is not the way to use it. Smoke the enemy's front lines!
Besides, on the majority of games I've played, Squad Leaders and the commander do use their smoke, not always correctly but at least they tried.
^^ This, i have seen some very oddly/poorly placed smoke in my time that really didnt help. Still, better to have smoke than none at all.
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I agree, smoke needs to be used, but judiciously.
For example, if your team is trying to advance from one building objective to the next, it's not really a good idea to throw the smoke right in front of the building you are exiting from. But a lot of squad leaders do this apparently thinking "they won't see us come out of the building!" but the problem is the smoke also obscures the vision of your covering fire team members.
It's a far better idea to throw smoke to create a corridor of smoke that blocks the view of their MGs and snipers but still allows your own team to provide covering fire and see where it is they are actually going. Spotting planes and individual spotting (z, I believe) helps in this.
I think running through or being in a cloud of smoke should hamper players because they can't breathe well. This would encourage more tactical use of the smoke grenade, trying to think how to create a screen without choking your own guys.
For example, if your team is trying to advance from one building objective to the next, it's not really a good idea to throw the smoke right in front of the building you are exiting from. But a lot of squad leaders do this apparently thinking "they won't see us come out of the building!" but the problem is the smoke also obscures the vision of your covering fire team members.
It's a far better idea to throw smoke to create a corridor of smoke that blocks the view of their MGs and snipers but still allows your own team to provide covering fire and see where it is they are actually going. Spotting planes and individual spotting (z, I believe) helps in this.
I think running through or being in a cloud of smoke should hamper players because they can't breathe well. This would encourage more tactical use of the smoke grenade, trying to think how to create a screen without choking your own guys.
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Throw smoke infront of enemy objektives and positions to obsucre their line of sight. It's THAT simple, getting close enough is another thing
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This is wrong.
MarioBava said:
This is right.
Smoke is best used when it's blinding the enemy's supporting fire, but allowing your own to work to full effect. All too often I see SL/Commanders dropping smoke right on the immediate front of an objective. Either making a big line of smoke, or just lobbing it inside. While this is marginally better than throwing smoke in front of your own lines, it's still not maximally effective.
It's usually a good rule to throw smoke on the flanks, or even rear flanks, of an objective, as this is where the experienced MGers and support troops usually hang out. Your own teammates are likely providing cover fire, either through just random noobish camping or experienced supporting fire. So most enemies who stick thier heads out the front windows or doors usually get nailed in short order. It's the enemy who are hanging back on the sides who do the most damage, as your teammates don't stop to look for them.
Quick and dirty image to help visualize what I'm talking about:
Also, I had a thread on smoke here a while ago:
[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=56434[/URL]
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Looked at the thread. Number 3 and 4 works good. But putting smoke inside the objektive is not good. But really this is more about what is best for what situation.
Here is a example:
Spartanovka is too wide to use supportive smoke because the enemy is all over and mostly located in the church. If you place smoke infront of it you blind most of the enemies and cover your own approach. Which the latter would only blind a few units supportive units which don't do alot of damage.
Here is a example:
Spartanovka is too wide to use supportive smoke because the enemy is all over and mostly located in the church. If you place smoke infront of it you blind most of the enemies and cover your own approach. Which the latter would only blind a few units supportive units which don't do alot of damage.
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A little bit of me dies every time I see someone place smoke directly on the objective. You should never ever smoke an area with cover in which you'll be engaging at close range. Smoke is the great randomiser. It turns what should be a fire fight into people blindly wandering around in smoke, hoping the smoke is easier to see through from your angle than the enemies....
Throwing dice is not the way to win in RO2.
Throwing dice is not the way to win in RO2.
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I fully realize that there is a lot more to it than just throwing it, but this thread comes out of a recent frustration that I have seen SL not using their smoke AT ALL (maybe they are new players and havent quite got the hang of things yet, wanted a better weapon and ... 'Oh damn, all the Assualt and Elite R'man roles are full, what's this role? Cool! I get a semi-auto!' kind of thing happens ... so hopefully some might see this thread and perhaps even ... oh, I don't even dare to hope!
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As a Commander, I usually throw smoke in front of the church in Spartanovka to force cowards to MOVE INTO THE CAP ZONE.
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I always try and use my smoke on the flanks. In front of enemy fire support. I do all the things everyone else has said to such as don't throw it just infront of the objective because it's the objective. There's always an opportunity to throw it where a sniper or MG is mowing down men trying to cross the street. Usually on a flank. It can make the world of difference and save a lot of lives. It sucks when an enemy squad leader knows what there doing and constantly blinds you.
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As the German commander?... (a presupposition based on your avatar; apologies if a premature one)
Yes, exactly! If they are not rushing in front of enemy guns, just out of a cloud of smoke and thus blinded, then they are cowards, no less!
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Throwing smoke in front of the church at spartanovka is the worst thing you can do ( I also presume you are german commander )
It blocks the view of all your support fire,
your fellow soldier shouldnt be running in front of the church to get in capzone but shoudl go by the side, as a squad leader or commander, I always run with a smoke grenade pop and ready in my hand, and sprint forward on the side of the church, and throw the smoke past the first block of houses. So that everybody can run to the capzone safely.
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This is wrong.
This is right.
Smoke is best used when it's blinding the enemy's supporting fire, but allowing your own to work to full effect. All too often I see SL/Commanders dropping smoke right on the immediate front of an objective. Either making a big line of smoke, or just lobbing it inside. While this is marginally better than throwing smoke in front of your own lines, it's still not maximally effective.
It's usually a good rule to throw smoke on the flanks, or even rear flanks, of an objective, as this is where the experienced MGers and support troops usually hang out. Your own teammates are likely providing cover fire, either through just random noobish camping or experienced supporting fire. So most enemies who stick thier heads out the front windows or doors usually get nailed in short order. It's the enemy who are hanging back on the sides who do the most damage, as your teammates don't stop to look for them.
Quick and dirty image to help visualize what I'm talking about:
Also, I had a thread on smoke here a while ago:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=56434[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=56434[/URL]
In theory that is a good tactic, but there simply aren't any maps large enough at the moment (excepting Ogledow) where this is a plausible way to do it. For example throwing smoke in front of church and town hall in Spartanovka simply works as it allows players to get to the wall of the building without being shot and that is enough, they can cap from there (while more experienced players will enter it and clear it out).
Same in Grainelevators, throwing smoke between gatehouse and conveyor tower is also a great help in getting players to move to objective without being mowed down by campers in the upper floors of the grain elevator.
As has been said, smoking in front of those objectives in that map is often what makes the difference in getting inexperienced players to move forward. Since this map is just about all I play in RO2 (excepting some ocassional Grainelevators) I have seen this effect countless times.
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Have to disagree there. A few situations in the current maps off the top of my head:
If throwing smoke directly in front of the cap "helps inexperienced players", then we're teaching them bad habits.
- Left and Right side of cap A on RedOctober
- Objective E on RedOctober, where the engineers can blow the side doors and front window.
- Just about every cap on Commisar's House
- Town Hall on Spartanovka.
- Church cap on Spartanovka, also throw smoke on the right road so Axis can take the destroyed village on that.
If throwing smoke directly in front of the cap "helps inexperienced players", then we're teaching them bad habits.
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I have to agree with Gudenrath: In grain elevator it's better to just throw the smoke where your team has to run. Smoke stays close to the ground, so all the high camping spots in that map would still perfectly see your team run if you were to create a smoke pocket.
Also, in public servers, people tend to camp in their base and try to "score kills". If you put smoke directly on the objective, sure their view will be blocked, but this will force them to move and cap the objective. I know it sounds a bit wrong to block their view, but sometimes that's what it takes to win the game.
Also, in public servers, people tend to camp in their base and try to "score kills". If you put smoke directly on the objective, sure their view will be blocked, but this will force them to move and cap the objective. I know it sounds a bit wrong to block their view, but sometimes that's what it takes to win the game.
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I must admit I have some times thrown a smoke grenade at the feet of really useless campers on my own team (like a squad leader or assault guy staying near our spawn, trying to snipe that enemy in conveyor tower with their smgs).
And I can report a 100% succes rate, it actually always causes them to move (although usually only to another corner of the spawn in order to camp on).
And I can report a 100% succes rate, it actually always causes them to move (although usually only to another corner of the spawn in order to camp on).
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The Major problem here is the fact that people dont play their roles, constantly seeing Commanders and Squad leaders just in that slot because its got their favorite weapon, so they dont use smoke, call in fire support or command the AI (if theirs any), right now im constantly forming on my Squadleader, thinking he's a squad leader but finding out he's some useless camper or something
Also the problem with Assaultclass and Elite Riflemen class, these should be more or less both Constantly Assaulting, or in the thick of it, when people fill these slots to get Semi-Auto's or full Auto's they tend to just sit back and snipe, leaving the Riflemen upto doing the Close Quarters work
The best solution to this problem I would think (Looking at the whole arcade feel of Ro2) would be to have a more freeform class selection, with restrictions of course. allowing the standard Riflemen slots open in large numbers, along with the limited other slots, but if you retain a say Veteran or HighDec assault, being able to join as a Assault, not being limited by the slots. This would allow a feel that you guy is always the same guy in each battle, this should increase the Immersion and allow people to play as a slot they like.
another way to solve this problem would be to have a limited ammount of weapons freely available, so If I chose rifleman class, wanting a PPsh I could chose one (With less ammo than Normal), but every time I spawned one was subtracted from the "Store", of course in Long, drawn out battles the stocks would run out, making the choice more Fixed. this would be a more Simpler fix but could be further advanced though the use of weapons dropped on captured locations being transferred to the store after a Period of time (instead of them Vaporizing into dust after X number of time)
Also the problem with Assaultclass and Elite Riflemen class, these should be more or less both Constantly Assaulting, or in the thick of it, when people fill these slots to get Semi-Auto's or full Auto's they tend to just sit back and snipe, leaving the Riflemen upto doing the Close Quarters work
The best solution to this problem I would think (Looking at the whole arcade feel of Ro2) would be to have a more freeform class selection, with restrictions of course. allowing the standard Riflemen slots open in large numbers, along with the limited other slots, but if you retain a say Veteran or HighDec assault, being able to join as a Assault, not being limited by the slots. This would allow a feel that you guy is always the same guy in each battle, this should increase the Immersion and allow people to play as a slot they like.
another way to solve this problem would be to have a limited ammount of weapons freely available, so If I chose rifleman class, wanting a PPsh I could chose one (With less ammo than Normal), but every time I spawned one was subtracted from the "Store", of course in Long, drawn out battles the stocks would run out, making the choice more Fixed. this would be a more Simpler fix but could be further advanced though the use of weapons dropped on captured locations being transferred to the store after a Period of time (instead of them Vaporizing into dust after X number of time)
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Plus, when they smoke INSIDE the building you are trying to capture, you cannot see ANY of their defensive positions. You run in and everyone gets sprayed down
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