Should the sway be like this?
- Thread starter Exterminatus
- Start date
right now,stand up and raise your left arm up and strech it out and point your finger at 3 meter target spot.
Close your left eye just like you do when you fire assault rifle.
and watch how your tip of the finger moves while trying to point at the exactly same spot for 20 second.
They moves very small in extent up and down, left and right but much faster than ro2 which almost seem like twitch, making keeping exactly stable aiming for same spot almost impossible.
RO1 sway itself is a little bit exaggerated, but not slow movement like ro2 which begs no significance in aiming.
How anyone can miss this?
In my speculation, insignificant unrealistic sway is TWI's desperate attempt to ease up on realism and make some cash.
Any weapon handler can point out weapon sway and ballisitcs in the game is not exactly realistic, ARMA2 had somewhat realistic sway and ballistics.
ppl might say there's not enough space for players to feel the ballistics, however, when I was in the army, I was told to fire lower part of the target if the target is under 150 meters away, cos bullet tend to fly a bit higher than targeting point, after 300m? bullet slowly drops.
That theory was for M16a2, I don't know about WW2 rifle ballistics but no matter what distance there is between gun and the target, you don't have to aim lower at all and bullets are bulleye spot on all the time disregarding ballisitics.
Close your left eye just like you do when you fire assault rifle.
and watch how your tip of the finger moves while trying to point at the exactly same spot for 20 second.
They moves very small in extent up and down, left and right but much faster than ro2 which almost seem like twitch, making keeping exactly stable aiming for same spot almost impossible.
RO1 sway itself is a little bit exaggerated, but not slow movement like ro2 which begs no significance in aiming.
How anyone can miss this?
In my speculation, insignificant unrealistic sway is TWI's desperate attempt to ease up on realism and make some cash.
Any weapon handler can point out weapon sway and ballisitcs in the game is not exactly realistic, ARMA2 had somewhat realistic sway and ballistics.
ppl might say there's not enough space for players to feel the ballistics, however, when I was in the army, I was told to fire lower part of the target if the target is under 150 meters away, cos bullet tend to fly a bit higher than targeting point, after 300m? bullet slowly drops.
That theory was for M16a2, I don't know about WW2 rifle ballistics but no matter what distance there is between gun and the target, you don't have to aim lower at all and bullets are bulleye spot on all the time disregarding ballisitics.
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It's not ballistics, it's the sighting of your rifle. I don't know about modern armies, but I read that the Russians had their rifles zeroed for 200m and had orders to shoot at belt height to account for the elevation.
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I told Hans not to practice his shooting after three bottles of schnapps. I'll have his head for this!
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Yes, your explanation sound more correct, anyways, ro2 don't have to aim lower and bullets are always spot on bullseye under 130m target, so there's wrong ballistics or no ballistics working here.
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Anyone with sound body condition have sway, more like twitch.
Just test how your finger tip moves when you do what I stated above, is your arm different from most ppl?
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Anyone who's spent a few afternoons shooting would be able to hit a man-sized target at 100m, and a head-sized target at 50m. Sway doesn't factor into it. It's a shot any decent shooter can make with ease.
Go try and make 200m+ killshots on Fallen Fighters or RO Factory or Spartanovka, and then come back and tell me shooting is too easy.
Holding your arm out is a -lot- harder than bracing a gun against your body. Your arm only has one point of contact, and requires significant output from a specific muscle group to keep suspended in front of you. A rifle has three points of contact (grip, foregrip, stock) and these points form a very comfortable, natural position. Your comparison isn't even close.
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Yes. Aiming a mouse cursor is much easier than aiming a rifle. In game sway (albeit unrealistic looking) helps to create more sustained firefights and makes roof sniping more challenging and rewarding. 
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So, you were taught to aim low instead of center mass? That's different. Also, bullets fly straight until gravity has its way with them. Optics/Sights force you to tilt muzzle up to compensate for this. That video makes me laugh. I can hold my side arm steadier than that.
-Paas
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What I am saying is in real life hitting 100m, 50m, target is quite easy for almost all the average ppl. It was easy for me too.
The subject here is not how easily you can hit the target, it's about how incorrectly and unrealistically weapon sway or moves when aiming.
ok contact point of 3 and I tested it with broomstick, I shoulder one end of it and held it with 2 hands and pointed at exact same spot for 20 second, you know what? tip of the broomstick still twitches.
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...but the sway is realistic now. Rifles don't move that much with good cheek welds. They just don't.
-Paas
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Muzzle elevation at the point of firing might be the factor for this..
As DesiQ said, it hit more on target of 50m if you aim slightly lower in real life..
Well, that's what I was told when in army boot camp, and it did happen to register correctly if I aim lower for 50m target, and I saw this happen in ARMA2 firing range too.
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That -is- simple and to the point. Your fingertip is a really bad comparison to how a weapon moves. Holding your arm out is a lot harder than holding a weapon steady. You use far fewer muscles to hold your arm out, and it gets tired faster because it's a goofy, uncomfortable position. There's very little in common, mechanically, between holding your arm out and holding a gun.
The motion of the gun in RO2 -is- realistic. The first few seconds, the only real sway is generated by the player trying to correct their aim and overcompensating. After that, fatigue sets in and their muscles start to twitch, adding in more spasmodic sway. Seems to be what happens to me every time I go shooting, and it's a very realistic depiction of real life aiming, in my opinion.
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The motion of the gun in RO2 -is- realistic. The first few seconds, the only real sway is generated by the player trying to correct their aim and overcompensating. After that, fatigue sets in and their muscles start to twitch, adding in more spasmodic sway. Seems to be what happens to me every time I go shooting, and it's a very realistic depiction of real life aiming, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
"adding in more spasmodic sway." this part of RO2 seem unrealistic, this actually doesn't exist in any meaningful manner in RO2.
I just held 2 meter long pole and shouldered and held it like it was a rifle.
About first 5 second of aiming it was stable, after that it started to twitch.
RO2 aiming never twitch and is stable forever. Do you think it's realistic?
"adding in more spasmodic sway." this part of RO2 seem unrealistic, this actually doesn't exist in any meaningful manner in RO2.
I just held 2 meter long pole and shouldered and held it like it was a rifle.
About first 5 second of aiming it was stable, after that it started to twitch.
RO2 aiming never twitch and is stable forever. Do you think it's realistic?
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1) A 2 meter long pole is hardly a fitting substitute for a proper rifle. It doesn't have the ergonomics, the weight is distributed differently, and the length makes it harder to keep steady. The K98 was 1.1 meters (according to wiki) and the Nagant was 1.2. Basically, holding a pole doesn't really give you a good idea of how a rifle feels either. It doesn't have a proper grip, stock, or weight distribution.
2) Aiming in RO2 -does- go unstable after 3 seconds. I've spent dozens of pages arguing this in the other thread (namely, the 3 seconds of no-sway. I maintain that the sway is player generated, my opponent thought this wasn't enough, but that's another story). After that, the sway starts to gradually kick in. After about 10 seconds, you're probably going to have to resight, 'cause it gets a lot harder to hit.
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2) Aiming in RO2 -does- go unstable after 3 seconds. I've spent dozens of pages arguing this in the other thread (namely, the 3 seconds of no-sway. I maintain that the sway is player generated, my opponent thought this wasn't enough, but that's another story). After that, the sway starts to gradually kick in. After about 10 seconds, you're probably going to have to resight, 'cause it gets a lot harder to hit.[/QUOTE]
You say it goes unstable but I don't think it goes unstable at all.
RIfle in RO2 never twitch or sway.
It does move a little but never twitch or very slow in motion that never ever affect accuracy unlike real life weapon sway twitch.
TBH, I can hit almost anything under130m away 8 out of 10even after I held rifle over 3 minutes in RO2 nonstop.
You say it goes unstable but I don't think it goes unstable at all.
RIfle in RO2 never twitch or sway.
It does move a little but never twitch or very slow in motion that never ever affect accuracy unlike real life weapon sway twitch.
TBH, I can hit almost anything under130m away 8 out of 10even after I held rifle over 3 minutes in RO2 nonstop.
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He was quoting me.
I have, but nobody wants to listen.
It makes the gameplay a lot more lethal, and takes the skill focus off of controlling your drunken soldier and turns it towards navigating a battlefield and completing objectives without being taken out by pinpoint rifle fire. You know, the same sort of challenges that actual soldiers had to worry about. That guy in the window down the street that you didn't see until he shot your buddy, and you didn't have a chance to run for cover because he wasn't drunk when he made the shot.
In RO1, if your attacker wasn't a crack shot you'd have heard the shot and had time to get into cover and peek out a few times to spot him.
In RO2, you're dead, and it's up to your buddies to try and find the other guy before he takes them out too.
RO2 is a much more tense, lethal interpretation of warfare in my opinion. Less forgiving of stupid player mistakes like moving upright through a hotzone or drawing attention to yourself without accomplishing something by it. I've passed up dozens of kills because shooting at them would have compromised my position and jeopardized my higher purpose (more often than not sneaking farther behind enemy lines and cutting off their reinforcement routes from a strong position with my LMG).
It makes you actually think about something other than farming kills, because the other guy WILL kill you if you're dumb enough to try and head-on his position. Most players know how to spot strong shooting positions and get themselves there. It's the bad ones that try to take on a player in a strong shooting position head to head. You could get away with it in RO1. You simply can't in RO2. It's a much better system, IMHO.
Of course, this is all opinions. The new shooting mechanics could be the biggest thing spoiling your enjoyment of the game. They're opinions.
I'm just saying that the new mechanics actually have me sweating in combat, whereas RO1 put me to sleep.
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You say it goes unstable but I don't think it goes unstable at all.
RIfle in RO2 never twitch or sway.
It does move a little but never twitch or very slow in motion that never ever affect accuracy unlike real life weapon sway twitch.
TBH, I can hit almost anything under130m away 8 out of 10even after I held rifle over 3 minutes in RO2 nonstop.[/QUOTE]
What's your defence here josef?
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RO2 rifle sway - YouTube
There is sway, and plenty of it, but under realistic conditions (in this case, the character is out of breath and trying to regain breath control to shoot). Your character doesn't start getting the Palsy twitches until after he's held the gun up for a few seconds. Again, realistic.
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