SS need some way to handle FP. Buff it or something.

[Utopia-Phoenix]

That's it. SS is focused on big targets such as SC,FP,Patty,and sometimes husks and sirens.

(The scenes below are talking about 6 men HOE with LV6 perks.)

SS handles SC extremely well since 1 headshot from Xbow or lar stuns it.
This effect can be achieved by zerkers with axe, or LAW demo as well.

SS can instant kill husks and sirens with 1 headshot from Xbow,or lar. However, even offperked, 1 Xbow headshot instant kill husks and sirens.
(The medic got sufficient spare load to carry a Xbow.)

SS need to score 4 headshots with Xbow to take out a FP on 6 men HOE. That's extremely difficult to achieve, and, failure results in your death.
If using M14/lar loadout then approach FP and countinue blast the bastard's head,and hope that you finish 10 headshots before he pound you to death...sucks.
(Unlike other classes, SS need to aim carefully so no spare hand to toss grenades before raging it.)

SS's job is to eliminate husks and sirens,SCs,FPs,and patty. And take a look at the mess!

SC elimination is inferior to zerkers and LAW demos. LAW demo prior to SS since LAW blast+grenades can instantly eliminate a 6 men FP as well as an upper hand against scrakes.

Husk and siren elimination is inferior to commandos(about 10 MK17 headshots to take out a siren,less on husks) and Xbow medics.

FP. Killing FP as a sharpie is a pain.

Patty. Probably the only use of this class. But non-medics are fragile against patty. You'll probably be killed before doing any damage to him.

That is just very sucks to sniper lovers. Very much, a lot.

 

[scary ghost]

SS handles SC extremely well since 1 headshot from Xbow or lar stuns it.
This effect can be achieved by zerkers with axe, or LAW demo as well.

Any perk using an axe can stun a scrake with an alt fire head shot from the back. It doesn't mean it's a smart move. Zerkers need to get close, and demos need enough space for the rocket to detonate. Sharpshooters can deal with scrakes at any range and deal with them faster and safer than zerker and demo.

SS can instant kill husks and sirens with 1 headshot from Xbow,or lar. However, even offperked, 1 Xbow headshot instant kill husks and sirens.
(The medic got sufficient spare load to carry a Xbow.)

That lets the sharpshooter save his bolts for the SC and FP. Nothing wrong with teammates helping carry your load.

SS need to score 4 headshots with Xbow to take out a FP on 6 men HOE. That's extremely difficult to achieve, and, failure results in your death.
If using M14/lar loadout then approach FP and countinue blast the bastard's head,and hope that you finish 10 headshots before he pound you to death...sucks.
(Unlike other classes, SS need to aim carefully so no spare hand to toss grenades before raging it.)

There's nothing wrong with having 2 xbow sharpshooters on the team. And what are your teammates doing? Standing there watching you? Coordinate with your teammates, especially the demo and support, to focus fire after the first bolt. One sharpshooter should never have to use 4 bolts on a single fleshpound.

M14 sharpshooter can easily nail 10 head shots before the fleshpound's rage animation finishes. There is no need to "hope that you finish 10 headshots before he pound you to death". All you need to do is aim and the fleshpound will be dead in ~3 seconds without even landing a hit. You make it sound like aiming is something really hard to do.

SC elimination is inferior to zerkers and LAW demos. LAW demo prior to SS since LAW blast+grenades can instantly eliminate a 6 men FP as well as an upper hand against scrakes.

Like I said above, sharpshooters have more flexibility with dealing with scrakes and can do it faster. Zerkers need to take 20+ seconds to kill 6 man HoE Fp. Fleshpounds are weak against the Demo's weaponry, so it's natural he can easily kill one.

Husk and siren elimination is inferior to commandos(about 10 MK17 headshots to take out a siren,less on husks) and Xbow medics.

Debatable...but again, nothing wrong with allowing the sharpshooter to save his bolts. And husks and sirens have equal head health.

FP. Killing FP as a sharpie is a pain.

Like I said above, coordinate with your team or learn how to aim the m14.

Patty. Probably the only use of this class. But non-medics are fragile against patty. You'll probably be killed before doing any damage to him.

Again, what are you teammates doing? Standing there watching you go 1v1 against the Patriarch? Why aren't your berserkers and medics grabbing his attention, so your sharpshooters can aim w/o worrying about getting pimp slapped? The patriarch was meant to be taken down by the entire team anyways.

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

Any perk using an axe can stun a scrake with an alt fire head shot from the back. It doesn't mean it's a smart move.

I don't think that ANY perk can stun the scrake...At least on HOE.
But one thing is right. Axe that stuff is pretty damn a risk.

Also, in order to take out a 6 men HOE SC, 1 bolt just stuns it. 2~3 bolts are demanded before the SC's death--and that's the heaviest snipery weapon in the game? Taking out its designated target with SEVERAL bolts while one hold no more than 36?(The solution is EITHER increase the Xbow's damage OR increase the ammo pool.)

For the medic sniper...Geez, the best solution at this status is to enable appliance of perk discounts to Xbows, and increase the Xbow base price. This will frustrate medics of carrying xbows since they have to pay full price.

For FP, I just didn't see any advantage in SS engaging it. Remember I am talking about HOE with LV6 perks,that's ultra difficult.

(PS: I don't know how to make a lot of quoteboxes in 1 page so...)

 

[sph34r]

I don't think that ANY perk can stun the scrake...At least on HOE.

Oh my. Prepare to get destroyed by Scary.

 

[FSUBoo]

I don't think that ANY perk can stun the scrake...At least on HOE.
But one thing is right. Axe that stuff is pretty damn a risk.

Also, in order to take out a 6 men HOE SC, 1 bolt just stuns it. 2~3 bolts are demanded before the SC's death--and that's the heaviest snipery weapon in the game? Taking out its designated target with SEVERAL bolts while one hold no more than 36?(The solution is EITHER increase the Xbow's damage OR increase the ammo pool.)

For the medic sniper...Geez, the best solution at this status is to enable appliance of perk discounts to Xbows, and increase the Xbow base price. This will frustrate medics of carrying xbows since they have to pay full price.

For FP, I just didn't see any advantage in SS engaging it. Remember I am talking about HOE with LV6 perks,that's ultra difficult.

(PS: I don't know how to make a lot of quoteboxes in 1 page so...)

I would suggest taking anything scary_ghost says as truth and factual. He know this game about as well as anyone, and can in fact provide game info to back it up. If he says something is true, trust it to be correct.

 

[scary ghost]

I don't think that ANY perk can stun the scrake...At least on HOE.
But one thing is right. Axe that stuff is pretty damn a risk.

Right...please read up on how to stun scrakes before we continue. Scroll down to the part about scrake stunning in the below link.
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=49922

If you want to know how stunning works in general, read this post.
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=732162&postcount=8

Once you have read those two posts. Ask yourself these two questions: How much damage do I have to do the scrake with 1 blow to stun him? How much damage does an off perk alt fire axe head shot from the back do? I'll give you a hint for the 2nd question, it's the same as a level 6 zerker using axe alt fire head shot from the front.

Also, in order to take out a 6 men HOE SC, 1 bolt just stuns it. 2~3 bolts are demanded before the SC's death--and that's the heaviest snipery weapon in the game? Taking out its designated target with SEVERAL bolts while one hold no more than 36?(The solution is EITHER increase the Xbow's damage OR increase the ammo pool.)

For the medic sniper...Geez, the best solution at this status is to enable appliance of perk discounts to Xbows, and increase the Xbow base price. This will frustrate medics of carrying xbows since they have to pay full price.

Medic sniper is useless against scrakes and fleshpounds on suicidal/HoE because off perk xbow doesn't stun scrakes and does pathetic damage against fp. Guess what increasing xbow damage does? If you read the above links on stunning, then it should be self explanatory. Also, medics don't buy xbows anyways. They spawn as sharpshooter, then switch class. Go ahead, up the base price of the xbow and apply a perk discount. Oh no, now the medic will just give the sharpshooter a few hundred, and get an xbow anyways.

Again, nothing wrong with 2 xbow sharps. Between the two of them, every sc and fp will magically vanish.

For FP, I just didn't see any advantage in SS engaging it. Remember I am talking about HOE with LV6 perks,that's ultra difficult.

Did you not read anything I wrote? It takes 10 m14 headshots for a level 6 sharpshooter to kill a 6 man HoE fp. What did I write? Let me quote myself.

M14 sharpshooter can easily nail 10 head shots before the fleshpound's rage animation finishes. There is no need to "hope that you finish 10 headshots before he pound you to death". All you need to do is aim and the fleshpound will be dead in ~3 seconds without even landing a hit. You make it sound like aiming is something really hard to do.

~3 seconds for a level 6 sharpshooter to kill a 6 man HoE fp by himself. If your aim is dead on, then 2.5 seconds. Clearly there is no reason for a perk that can kill a 6 man HoE fp faster than any other perk except demo to take one on. If you honestly think it's "ultra difficult" for a level 6 sharpshooter to kill a 6 man HoE fp, then I suggest you play with sharpshooters who how to aim.

 

[CandleJack]

I remember before when people were making posts quite like yours; but inverted.

They were saying that the Xbow and M14 in anyone's hands can do too much damage and make the game a joke. The Xbow could OHK any Scrakes or FPs, and IIRC could bring the patty to his knees with one shot.

So i suppose we'll be bouncing back and forth between the extremes of OP and UP for a while then.

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

Right...please read up on how to stun scrakes before we continue. Scroll down to the part about scrake stunning in the below link.
[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=49922[/URL]

If you want to know how stunning works in general, read this post.
[url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=732162&postcount=8[/URL]

Once you have read those two posts. Ask yourself these two questions: How much damage do I have to do the scrake with 1 blow to stun him? How much damage does an off perk alt fire axe head shot from the back do? I'll give you a hint for the 2nd question, it's the same as a level 6 zerker using axe alt fire head shot from the front.


Medic sniper is useless against scrakes and fleshpounds on suicidal/HoE because off perk xbow doesn't stun scrakes and does pathetic damage against fp. Guess what increasing xbow damage does? If you read the above links on stunning, then it should be self explanatory. Also, medics don't buy xbows anyways. They spawn as sharpshooter, then switch class. Go ahead, up the base price of the xbow and apply a perk discount. Oh no, now the medic will just give the sharpshooter a few hundred, and get an xbow anyways.

Again, nothing wrong with 2 xbow sharps. Between the two of them, every sc and fp will magically vanish.



Did you not read anything I wrote? It takes 10 m14 headshots for a level 6 sharpshooter to kill a 6 man HoE fp. What did I write? Let me quote myself.



~3 seconds for a level 6 sharpshooter to kill a 6 man HoE fp by himself. If your aim is dead on, then 2.5 seconds. Clearly there is no reason for a perk that can kill a 6 man HoE fp faster than any other perk except demo to take one on. If you honestly think it's "ultra difficult" for a level 6 sharpshooter to kill a 6 man HoE fp, then I suggest you play with sharpshooters who how to aim.

Well thanks for the analysis file... I learned something. I forgot backstabbing... But that's really difficult to imagine since I NEVER see one guy doing so. I see few powerful zerkers(offperk axes are almost never carried on HOE...)

Also that is ultra dangerous...

Increasing xbow damage would allow medic sniper to stun scrakes. Sucks. You win.

Probably I misunderstood the big idea. (The purpose of this thread is to make Xbow SSs easier on taking out FPs on HOE.)

OK. Change something else. Increase the ratio of FP xbow headshot.

(I found some info on the file
0.35x -> Crossbow head shot on Suicidal and H.o.E )

I'd like to increase it. No painful 4 headshots.
(The heavy handlers--demo,SS,support. SS with Xbow pains much more when trying to handle a FP than the other classes.

If questioning about this, any demo can do it, and LV6 support can instantly kill a 6 men HOE FP with 3 grenades + HS altfire + 3 grenades. You can try it)

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

I remember before when people were making posts quite like yours; but inverted.

They were saying that the Xbow and M14 in anyone's hands can do too much damage and make the game a joke. The Xbow could OHK any Scrakes or FPs, and IIRC could bring the patty to his knees with one shot.

So i suppose we'll be bouncing back and forth between the extremes of OP and UP for a while then.

I remember you. I am one of them who says Xbow spams.
In those days 1 Xbow headshot eliminate a Suicidal FP as a SS, and even offperked, 3 xbow headshots eliminate FP. Very powerful. My pro support in the squad use AA12+Xbow+Katana loadout.

But today that weapon ,and class, sucks.

PS: I am pro commando but always keep an eye on snipery weapons. I just thought something is wrong with Xbow. Demo and support,1 is enough to solo take out the big targets while SS need a pair (Do not mention the M14, I am talking about Xbow SSs.)

 

[Ibin.]

This thread is good just for the entertainment, and for that pheonix, thank you.

Anyhow... 4 bow headshots? Easy? Depends on the terrain. Hard? again, depends on the terrain. IIRC during the time when the bow was massively nerfed (which it NEEDED), 3 bolt headshots was deemed too easy since, well, it is. 2 during the rage animation and 1 on the move makes FP's a joke. So they made it just a tad over 3 bolt headshots to decap.

Also, the scrake/fleshpound resistences were added to suicidal and HoE specifically to combat the problem sc/fps being too easily killed in your "ultra dangerous" difficulty. It is supposed to be difficult, that is the point. Can't do it? Learn how to or play Suicidal or lower. Don't cry for a nerf just because you cannot do it.

 

[scary ghost]

If questioning about this, any demo can do it, and LV6 support can instantly kill a 6 men HOE FP with 3 grenades + HS altfire + 3 grenades. You can try it)

So you want going to waste 6 frags just to kill 1 fp? Fine, now kill the 2nd fp, and the 3rd...oh yeah, you used up all your frags. It's still safer for the m14 SS to take it out than to try and toss 6 frags.

 

[FluX]

No offence but end this thread...another person trying to overpower a perk. They're NOT ment to take on every perk with ease. Every perk should have a advantage AND a disadvantage. The disadvantage of sharpshooter is YOU HAVE TO AIM AT THE HEAD. Oh and cause I noticed you're on on HoE a little pointer, TEAMWORK. Teamwork is a MUST. I dunno how many people actually do not understand what teamwork is in a co-operative game...it's starting to really annoy me...

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

So you want going to waste 6 frags just to kill 1 fp? Fine, now kill the 2nd fp, and the 3rd...oh yeah, you used up all your frags. It's still safer for the m14 SS to take it out than to try and toss 6 frags.

At least he can do it. That's the nuke skill of the pro support in my squad. Also,there are usually demo teammates,and sometimes he use AA12 to preserve some frags.

I am thinking that as a Xbow sniper,taking out an essential target need to headshot 4 times...That's just pretty funny. Is that a sniper weapon or BB gun?
(No, I ain't talking about M14 against FPs. It does fine on elite SSs.)

Think in another way- 10 M14 headshots nails a FP with an ammo cost of less than $10. ($15 per mag which contains 20 rounds.)
4 Xbow headshots cost $44. Sucks.

Also, Xbow is heavier and stronger than M14, and it is designated to deal with the heaviest enemies such as SCs and FPs. Why xbow take such a pain while M14 handles it with a smile?

Or in another word, Xbow is too good offperk and too bad on SS. (Again I mention:M14 is NOT a bad weapon.)

When offperk:
Medics can use it to take out pesky husks and sirens-with a smile.(No,medic don't even use it against SCs and FPs.)
Only $800 for an offperk weapon while others cost thousands! That's really cheap for a offperk weapon! Also,spawn as a LV6 SS for the money! Very stup1d.

When SS uses it:
Eliminating husks or sirens--Medics can do it. Perk equals nothing.
Eliminating SCs--Several headshots,yeah? Well,stunned(stablized or F*****ed I forgot the term) SCs are easy targets for other weapons but the head is difficult to shoot. (Is that a hitbox glitch? I don't know. The head ,when stunned and put down, is ultra hard to get.)
Also, the ammo cost is a pain compared to cheap lar rounds.
Eliminating FPs--Mentioned above. Working great effort to nail 4 bolts on the head,and cost $44. M14 handles it with a smile and small money.
Price--Pains. $800 equals tier 3 weapon price.

 

[SMIFF]

Also, Xbow is heavier and stronger than M14, and it is designated to deal with the heaviest enemies such as SCs and FPs. Why xbow take such a pain while M14 handles it with a smile?

Because the M14 is still overpowered.

 

[Pendragon]

Also, Xbow is heavier and stronger than M14, and it is designated to deal with the heaviest enemies such as SCs and FPs. Why xbow take such a pain while M14 handles it with a smile?

As far as I know the M14 is the Teir 3 weapon for Sharpshooter and the X-Bow is the Teir 2. (Someone correct me if iam wrong?) do it makes sence the ammo is cheaper.

Each weapon has its own advantages and can excel with certain situations. X-Bow is perfect for the larger maps where your able to take out the scrakes before they become a threat to the team and in in some cases you can kill the fleshpound or at least severely weaken it.

While the M14 is better for mid range maps, and not everyone can pull off FP's using the M14.

Least thats my opinion about it.

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

Uh. I neglected something. This is EVEN WORSE for SS. (If not mentioned,I refer to SS equipped with Xbow+Deagle)

When cooperating against FPs, the theory of support and demo is using explosive weapons. This make smokes. The theory of snipers is scoring critical headshots.

Support doesn't fear smoke very much since he know the approximately location of the FP. That's enough for shotguns and frags.

Demo doesn't fear smoke either cause demo weaponary are AOEs. Approximately location is enough.

For SS? Needless to say it is a freckin NIGHTMARE

Support and demo are in the same group and left SS out. Is that the so-called freckin teamplay?

Or with a small buff like below to courage SSs in helping nuke the FPs?

Hawk Eye(SS): See through explosive smokes and fire screens

 

[Pendragon]

Why does a perk need to be buffed because some people don't play as a team? It's up to the players in the team to work out a suitable combo that works and doesn't disadvantage the other perks. It's not the perks fault if a demo goes and spams grenades creating a smoke field and it certainly doesn't need a see through smoke upgrade it would be a little unbalanced.

 

[sph34r]

freckin

I don't typically quote people's misspellings but in this case... I mean...

 

[sverek]

Killing FP with m14 is boring now. (HOE 6 players)
11 bullets in FP face and it's down. You can achieve it from 5 meters distance.

Regarding crossbow, I think it could be 3 bolts in head to decap FP. However crossbow is better for piercing lots of zeds instead of wasting it headshoting fp.

 

[Utopia-Phoenix]

Killing FP with m14 is boring now. (HOE 6 players)
11 bullets in FP face and it's down. You can achieve it from 5 meters distance.

Regarding crossbow, I think it could be 3 bolts in head to decap FP. However crossbow is better for piercing lots of zeds instead of wasting it headshoting fp.

I prefer a new bolt action sniper rifle with even longer wait between shots, and higher damage. Like WW2 scoped mauser Kar98(or Kar98K/Gew98 similar model).

Yeah. WW2 old rifle which works well. Mauser is very good in producting solid guns. German quality, and easy to get in UK(sold on market as post-war material, I remember UK as a winner in WW2.).

By decreasing the Rof even further it claims no sniper suppressing.
By using 7.92*57 it claims cheaper rounds than valueable bolts, but still more expensive than the NATO or soviet standard rounds. (7.92*57 mauser rounds is relatively rare to the 7.62*51 NATO rounds...)

I imagine that

As LV6 SS on HOE
1 headshot SC on 6 men. No longer boring,stup1d and costly stun kills!
2 headshot decap FP on 6 men. Note that the Rof is ultra low that FP finishes raging animation before you can headshot again!
I recommand a price of $375/$1250. Ammo $40/5 rds. When buying the rifle 10 rounds for free so no stup1d selling back! Weight 10.

As non-SS on HOE
1 headshot husks and sirens. That's good enough. Pathetic damage againse SCs and FPs. (It cannot stun SCs when used offperk ofc)

Reload is manually hold 1 round and put it in the hole. Cost twice as much time as reloading lar. When reloading pulling bolt is demanded first and that take the time of reloading 1 round.

That's a real snipery weapon. Xbow is not one.