Jeez guys don't you know you become a lumbering and in-agile stiff once you join the military.
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Slow is not necessarily realistic!
- Thread starter Scarf Ace
- Start date
Yeah they were training with heavier weight so when they are out in the field it's actually alot lighter and a walk in the park compared to training. And when your own life is on the line you tend to have alot more strength and adrenaline.
Unless your the radio guy.... Speaking of which, it would be nice if the squad leaders had radio backpacks for the commander to use on the field without having to run to a radio.
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Alright, alright, hold it guys.
Let's break things down.
Envision you are a fresh recruit, with a bare minimum of training. You are, however, reasonably fit and average in all respects.
Now, let's take the apartments. Starting from behind the Russian spawn, you don't think that a person of average fitness could sprint, full tilt, from that starting point to the first building, across the bridge and difficult terrain, with a full kit of gear? That can't be more than 75m. I appreciate that it is very difficult to sprint when you are hungry and wearing full gear, but you also need to factor in adrenaline, which is an incredible chemical, and the basic human will to live. If your life depended on covering that stretch of land as fast as possible, I reckon even the fatties could cross it in a few seconds even with all the fatigue of marching weighing them down.
Try sprinting on fallen heroes. Without the enemies shooting at you, I imagine I could cover the distance from the Axis spawn to the fountain at full tilt, provided I didn't trip over anything. Again, that's just over 100m, a perfectly reasonable distance for the average human to sprint. Honestly, when I'm taking potshots at the Krauts from my safe little hidey hole, it looks very convincing how they crouch-run, sprint, and dive between cover. I could almost believe I was shooting at real people who were genuinely concerned for their safety and attempting to reach shelter as quickly as their starving frames could take them. It all looks and feels very fluid, and I honestly think it makes a much better simulation than Red Orchestra 1's plodding around. I never had trouble believing I was shooting a computer model in RO1. The motions weren't organic, the speeds weren't right, it just didn't seem as alive as RO2 does.
Frankly, I approve of the increased speed. It makes things more tense, more skill-based than the last one where interface issues would often screw players out of the chance to live. It's much harder to hit moving targets now, even though the weapons are more accurate, simply because they move so gosh darn fast. Leading targets outside of the first 100m becomes much more challenging when they're zig-zagging, bobbing-and-weaving, and diving for cover. All in all, I think it's a much more realistic, believable portrayal of war than ROOST, and I approve fully.
Let's break things down.
Envision you are a fresh recruit, with a bare minimum of training. You are, however, reasonably fit and average in all respects.
Now, let's take the apartments. Starting from behind the Russian spawn, you don't think that a person of average fitness could sprint, full tilt, from that starting point to the first building, across the bridge and difficult terrain, with a full kit of gear? That can't be more than 75m. I appreciate that it is very difficult to sprint when you are hungry and wearing full gear, but you also need to factor in adrenaline, which is an incredible chemical, and the basic human will to live. If your life depended on covering that stretch of land as fast as possible, I reckon even the fatties could cross it in a few seconds even with all the fatigue of marching weighing them down.
Try sprinting on fallen heroes. Without the enemies shooting at you, I imagine I could cover the distance from the Axis spawn to the fountain at full tilt, provided I didn't trip over anything. Again, that's just over 100m, a perfectly reasonable distance for the average human to sprint. Honestly, when I'm taking potshots at the Krauts from my safe little hidey hole, it looks very convincing how they crouch-run, sprint, and dive between cover. I could almost believe I was shooting at real people who were genuinely concerned for their safety and attempting to reach shelter as quickly as their starving frames could take them. It all looks and feels very fluid, and I honestly think it makes a much better simulation than Red Orchestra 1's plodding around. I never had trouble believing I was shooting a computer model in RO1. The motions weren't organic, the speeds weren't right, it just didn't seem as alive as RO2 does.
Frankly, I approve of the increased speed. It makes things more tense, more skill-based than the last one where interface issues would often screw players out of the chance to live. It's much harder to hit moving targets now, even though the weapons are more accurate, simply because they move so gosh darn fast. Leading targets outside of the first 100m becomes much more challenging when they're zig-zagging, bobbing-and-weaving, and diving for cover. All in all, I think it's a much more realistic, believable portrayal of war than ROOST, and I approve fully.
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On the cold-and-starving discussion:
If we take the premise that our avatars or suffering from fatigue, the sway should increase with stillness. Once you sit tight the cold starts creeping into your body, as opposed to when you just made your 20m adrenaline-fueled dash to your next hiding hole.
I have no experience what so ever apart from air gun shooting, but I would not mind a bit more overall sway. This might be a bias from my own lack of skill, though. I would like to hear actual testemonies from people with experience from firefights in adverse conditions.
On another note, I read in a US army document somewhere that the average load of a soldier has been the same for more than a 100 years. When something gets lightened, some more objects are issued.
If we take the premise that our avatars or suffering from fatigue, the sway should increase with stillness. Once you sit tight the cold starts creeping into your body, as opposed to when you just made your 20m adrenaline-fueled dash to your next hiding hole.
I have no experience what so ever apart from air gun shooting, but I would not mind a bit more overall sway. This might be a bias from my own lack of skill, though. I would like to hear actual testemonies from people with experience from firefights in adverse conditions.
On another note, I read in a US army document somewhere that the average load of a soldier has been the same for more than a 100 years. When something gets lightened, some more objects are issued.
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Anyone or everyone? 'Lots of stuff'? Does 'Lots of stuff' include scarcely eating for over three months, wearing over 60 lbs of wet wool and canvas, 40 lbs of gear, in incliment weather, and enough disease, injury and sickness to put you in a contemporary hospital's intensive care ward?
Clothing disperses fairly well over your body. Chainmail, for instance, is quite heavy if you try to hold it folded up. Put it on and you might feel some weight at first but it quickly goes away. Also, for the sake of the game, we'll assume all the soldiers that you will be playing as are relativley healthy up until you get them shot. That may not be the most realistic of things, but to be honest I don't think you much want to play as a diseased, starving German who has trouble holding his rifle steady and runs at the speed of someone with a broken leg whilst a Russian runs up and casually bayonets him.
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I agree, I like things the way they are. If they slowed movement speed or changed sprinting it would make it even harder to not get shot running to cover in Fallen Fighters.
I hope Tripwire doesn't listen to all the complaining...although they could fix how you die violently from a 4 feet fall lol.
I hope Tripwire doesn't listen to all the complaining...although they could fix how you die violently from a 4 feet fall lol.
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Yeah, that's one thing worth mentioning.
Medieval warriors managed to fight in brutal, hand-to-hand fighting (often in similar conditions; exausted, dehydrated, malnourished, and diseased) wearing between 50-100 lbs of heavy, hot, constraining armor. Think the crusades, where folks had to wear tabards and chainmail haubricks in the burning sun and still be fit and strong enough to kill several men with a length of steel if they wanted to survive the battle.
Stalingrad would be a comparable scenario, and I think it's entirely reasonable to expect the soldiers to perform fairly well physically despite their degraded health, especially when you consider the fact that fighting with a rifle is much less physically taxing than fighting with a sword.
Just throwing that out there.
Medieval warriors managed to fight in brutal, hand-to-hand fighting (often in similar conditions; exausted, dehydrated, malnourished, and diseased) wearing between 50-100 lbs of heavy, hot, constraining armor. Think the crusades, where folks had to wear tabards and chainmail haubricks in the burning sun and still be fit and strong enough to kill several men with a length of steel if they wanted to survive the battle.
Stalingrad would be a comparable scenario, and I think it's entirely reasonable to expect the soldiers to perform fairly well physically despite their degraded health, especially when you consider the fact that fighting with a rifle is much less physically taxing than fighting with a sword.
Just throwing that out there.
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This. People have this strange tendency to assume that 70 pounds of combat gear is the same as carrying 70 pounds of dumbbells around in the battlefield. Combat gear is designed to distribute its weight efficiently -- look at the backpack, for instance. A good backpack distributes the weight it carries over several points on your body. Carry 70 pounds of free-weights in a backpack and tell me it isn't a tenth of the strain it would be to carry them in your hand.
70 pounds of combat gear is basically like being 70 pounds fatter than you are. If you're in awesome shape, being 70 pounds fatter wouldn't suddenly make you an invalid.
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I mostly like the movement speeds. I was concerned in preview videos how people seemed to go to sprint so instantly, but in this public beta it takes time to reach max speed. In general there's a bit of weight to the body. Can't just instantly change direction twitch style (but sometimes not too far off. Seen people stand and strafe left-right continously in the open while firing back decently fast. A bit more left-right inertia would ben ice).
People are not easy to hit when they sprint from left to right in front of you when using a rifle, but having to lead moving targets like that is not meant to be easy. Bullets are not instant.
People are not easy to hit when they sprint from left to right in front of you when using a rifle, but having to lead moving targets like that is not meant to be easy. Bullets are not instant.
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Jeez guys don't you know you become a lumbering and in-agile stiff once you join the military.
I've always wondered... where did that pic originate? It's been floating around for years.
Is it not shopped?
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Here's the irony...you may have missed it...I stopped reading because both the for & against crowds claim they are right. The irony that I BELIEVE (I could be wrong here) you were pointing out was not that I think I was right...I just have my opinion. You may have yours. They may be different. I'm okay with that. But the goofiness of the attacks gets unreadable after a while. The thing I (tried) to point out with my post is that it is very likely that ALL sides will be able to have the game the way we want it. So why start an argument that is essentially trying to call out everyone else if they don't agree with your position?
That's all. Irony or not in my calling everyone "...morons, stupid, don't understand that others just MAY see things differently than them...", my point still stands. Just wait and the game will be all we all want it to be. Peace.
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Considering the springboard there and what little I've seen of Spetsnaz training, I have reason to believe that picture may actually be real.
You gotta admit, "killed by backflip hatchet attack" has got to be high on a list of "coolest ways to die".
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From what I've seen on youtube so far, only speed that looks akward is when soldier is runing upstairs. It looks like it doesn't affect it at all.
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I would put that **** on my tombstone.
The discussion is a bit circular, filled with "ifs", "buts" and "thens" (not to mention "but ifs", "then ifs" and the perennial "but then"). So-and-so likes it fast, but then the realists claim the clothing and conditions would result in slower movements but then the speed freaks claim adrenaline would counteract the cold, the illness and the wet trench coat but only if such and such and blarg blah blarg ...
I think the facts can be twisted to support either argument.
That said, it's fun to watch.
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Well, yeah. Why would someone have a differing opinion if they didn't think they were right? Do you often have opinions you don't think are right? lol
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Well, yeah. Why would someone have a differing opinion if they didn't think they were right? Do you often have opinions you don't think are right? lol
I'm all for differing opinions. What made me stop reading was all the people that refused to see that differing opinions were OKAY. I wasn't claiming that people with differing opinions were the morons, stupid, etc. I was saying, "Dang, stop beating the sh*t out of each other just because you disagree and someone else feels different about it..." That was my point. I wasn't calling anyone stupid for not agreeing with each other.
But, I have to agree, that post does seem purely ironic if read that way. LOL. Sorry for not being clearer. Oops. Thanks for the "call-out" Hektor!
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More like strap on a backpack and a bunch of miscellaneous pouches and bags hanging off your body at various points weighing you down and banging into you as you run over uneven ground after starving yourself and not sleeping for days. Then see how fast you can SPRINT (not run) before having to slow down.
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