Stockpiling

[Braiken]

I guess everyone is familiar with those hardworking players who like to collect shiny stuff especially guns, and put them in one shadowy corner. I never really understood why is the system allows this? I mean if you and your team properly use those guns you don't need an extra one. Stockpiling supports spamming instead of precise well placed shoots. Stockpilling also means you waste extra dosh that you could give to that poor demo. The only positive thing I could imagine if your whole team messes up and you gotta solo a wave then you will need the extra weapons most likely. So my suggestion is to simply make all weapons that are on the floor disappear when a new wave starts. I can't see any downside to it, but if you do do share.

TL;DR Make weapons disappear from the floor at the start of each wave

 

[LostFlip]

No.

 

[CandleJack]

I can't see any downside to it, but if you do do share.

TL;DR Make weapons disappear from the floor at the start of each wave

You know that Level 3 that got a Level 6 to buy him an AA12 and then he died and he was going to get it when he respawned?

Yeah, good luck explaining that his AA12 disappearing is a good thing.

 

[Ibin.]

Servers can choose if they have weapon stay on or not. Most if not all have it on because if not it is very annoying.

 

[sph34r]

Your beautiful xbow piles wouldn't be possible without this feature, wouldn't they.

 

[Braiken]

No.

Thanks for the constructive criticism, you're awsome!

You know that Level 3 that got a Level 6 to buy him an AA12 and then he died and

he was going to get it when he respawned?

Yeah, good luck explaining
that
his AA12 disappearing is a good thing

That poor lvl3 got 60 or 90 full seconds to get his/her weapon back during the trader time. If fails to do so that's entirely their fault. Your point is only valid if the weapon is so faraway that they can't reach it in the trader time, which should be rarely the case

 

[sph34r]

Stockpiling extra weapons is a legitimate tactic. If you're saying it promotes spam, you're probably trying to argue that it removes the need to be smart about ammo, and is therefore unskilled. Well, look at like this: "player A is doing exceptionally well. So well, that he hasn't died even once so far. So well, that he has been smart about his ammo usage and now has $2000 extra to play with." Would you punish this player for doing well by removing the only advantage he could get himself, using that money? It doesn't seem fair or logical to me that someone shouldn't be able to use their money, should they earn enough of it by being skilled enough to do so, to buy extra guns.

Also, giving money to the demo is extremely overrated. When I play with my group of friends, we almost never have anyone die, and as such have tons of spare money. When I happen to play demo, they give me their money and this is what usually ends up happening. There is no way to argue that I could have done something more "intelligent" with that money - there's just no way I could possibly use enough ammo to keep up with the amount of money I was getting, unless, contrary to logical play, I were to ineffectively use my ammo and resort to

spamming instead of precise well placed shoots

 

[CandleJack]

When I happen to play demo, they give me their money and this is what usually ends up happening.

At first i was like: "You switch to Commando and stockpile Xbows? That's dumb."

Then i looked closer, and then i went

I'm sure you can find a way to turn that into a deathtrap for some FP or something

 

[nutterbutter]

I think stockpiling is cheating and poor players have to do it. But I think you are looking at the solution from the wrong angle. The mistake, in my opinion, is TWI decision to bundle the ammo with the weapon rather than with the player. That is how people can throw down a shotgun and it magically has 40+ or however many shells it holds. The LAW magically holding 10+ missiles. And so on.

The solution is to bundle the ammo with the player. The weapon drops with only the amount of ammo that is currently in the weapon. If players wanted to stockpile weapons that way, I'd have no problem with it.

However there is absolutely no chance of that happening so it is staying the way it is.

 

[kablooie!]

I think stockpiling is cheating and poor players have to do it. But I think you are looking at the solution from the wrong angle. The mistake, in my opinion, is TWI decision to bundle the ammo with the weapon rather than with the player. That is how people can throw down a shotgun and it magically has 40+ or however many shells it holds. The LAW magically holding 10+ missiles. And so on.

The solution is to bundle the ammo with the player. The weapon drops with only the amount of ammo that is currently in the weapon. If players wanted to stockpile weapons that way, I'd have no problem with it.

However there is absolutely no chance of that happening so it is staying the way it is.

I rarely stock pile weapons so I'm not too concerned one way or the other but how in the world is it cheating? I've seen you call it cheating a number of times but never saw an explanation. If you called it exploiting I wouldn't agree but it'd atleast make a little more sense.

 

[sph34r]

I'm sure you can find a way to turn that into a deathtrap for some FP or something

Oh, if we ever do get overrun, we retreat to the pipehall and let everything kill itself as it tries to step through. It's pretty nice for the patriarch too even though it doesn't do very much damage. Oh also, I wasn't the commando in that screenshot, I was the demo. The person who took the screenshot was a friend in the server.

I think stockpiling is cheating and poor players have to do it.

Can you explain why you think this?

But I think you are looking at the solution from the wrong angle. The mistake, in my opinion, is TWI decision to bundle the ammo with the weapon rather than with the player.

This is incorrect. As far as "making the profit" goes, more of it comes from selling the weapon than using the free ammo it gives you. Crossbows, for example, sell for $600.

 

[nutterbutter]

I rarely stock pile weapons so I'm not too concerned one way or the other but how in the world is it cheating? I've seen you call it cheating a number of times but never saw an explanation. If you called it exploiting I wouldn't agree but it'd atleast make a little more sense.

Can you explain why you think this?

The mistake, in my opinion, is TWI decision to bundle the ammo with the weapon rather than with the player. That is how people can throw down a shotgun and it magically has 40+ or however many shells it holds. The LAW magically holding 10+ missiles. And so on.

And other weapons magically hold full ammo counts while on the deck.

 

[kablooie!]

So you don't have a reason for calling people cheaters... Or am I missing something? You just think it's unrealistic or it doesn't make sense, right?

Saying that it's some sort of exploit that the developers didn't foresee is one thing... but accusing people who do it of cheating is crazy. Have the developers ever said anything like they never intended people to be able to do that? Is it even wrong in the first place?

 

[9_6]

Eh, nothing wrong with dropping guns.
You're right in saying that it's a crutch for bad players but in the end, it's just not big enough a deal to kick up such a fuss about it.
"Fixes" for this will most likely break something more important like picking up your expensive hardware after you died.

As for the "cheating" angle, there has been a topic in which an e-mail from one of the devs has been quoted that they know about stockpiling and that it's intended the way it is but that didn't stop a certain someone from shrieking "exploit" and "effectively infinite ammunition" over and over back then and it ain't gonna stop them now.
Just saying.

"Cheating" is entirely a matter of opinion now, even if it's playing the game by the rules the devs outspokenly intended.
Just... roll with it.

 

[nutterbutter]

So you don't have a reason for calling people cheaters... Or am I missing something? You just think it's unrealistic or it doesn't make sense, right?

Saying that it's some sort of exploit that the developers didn't foresee is one thing... but accusing people who do it of cheating is crazy. Have the developers ever said anything like they never intended people to be able to do that? Is it even wrong in the first place?

I do have a reason. I stated it. "By bundling the ammo with the weapon instead of the person allows people to drop fully loaded weapons that magically have hundreds of rounds, or scores of shells, a half dozen or so of drums, or multiple tanks of fuel, or over a dozens of rockets attached." You can agree with me or disagree with me. I call cheating.

The devs has stated they want it this way and since it is their game, their rules.

Again, if a dropped weapon only held a single max load of ammo that would be one thing. But right now, dropping weapons effectively provides the player with infinite ammo and I call that cheating.

 

[kablooie!]

Okay so the developers say it's part of the game and perfectly fine... but to you it's cheating.

That's a bit odd but fair enough. Thanks for taking the time to clarify.

 

[sph34r]

Oh, so your problem isn't with suiciding for spawn-weapons which you then sell, right? (assuming this because you didn't respond to that point when I made it). Your problem is with players being able to spam because they have endless ammo, right? Well, here I just disagree because even without stockpiling weapons, you will never run out of ammo if every class does its job. The sharpshooter kills every scrake with 2 bolts, the commando and support kill trash, and the demo kills FPs.

 

[nutterbutter]

Oh, so your problem isn't with suiciding for spawn-weapons which you then sell, right? (assuming this because you didn't respond to that point when I made it).

Actually, I think that is cheating as well.

Your problem is with players being able to spam because they have endless ammo, right? Well, here I just disagree because even without stockpiling weapons, you will never run out of ammo if every class does its job. The sharpshooter kills every scrake with 2 bolts, the commando and support kill trash, and the demo kills FPs.

"If ever class does its job"? If everything always worked out the way the someone wanted, then there would never be a reason to cheat, yes?

 

[nutterbutter]

Okay so the developers say it's part of the game and perfectly fine... but to you it's cheating.

That's a bit odd but fair enough. Thanks for taking the time to clarify.

I don't have a specific post, but I've been here a while and I think TWIs intention with the ammo bound to the weapon instead of the player was when everyone else died, the one player left would have sufficient weapons and ammo to run and gun. I don't think they ever really considered players stockpiling weapons.

Now that there are bigger weapons that do more damage and there is a much less chance of dying, there is too much money in the game and that really opens the floodgates of stockpiling.

I don't think they really want the game played like that, but they can't really do anything about it now. Like I said, I don't have a specific post, but that is the vibe I get.

 

[sph34r]

Actually, I think that is cheating as well.

I think you're being too much of an ethicist here To me, cheating would be exploiting something like the old trader-glitch on biohazard or getting on top of west london with the fence. To use ammo that your weapons spawn with to me is just smart/creative.

"If ever class does its job"? If everything always worked out the way the someone wanted, then there would never be a reason to cheat, yes?

I can't quite address the way you want me to because I would first have to treat it as "cheating", which I don't think it is. We've said that already. But um, I don't understand your point anyway. Why WOULDN'T the sharpshooter target scrakes, the commando/support trash, and the demoman the FPs? Doing it another way just shows the players are clueless, so of course they're going to run out of ammo anyway.