pistol

[Actin]

Since I haven't found anything about it I just wanted to coin the idea of an 'improvement'.

As I found out while playing MG a lot, I think the pistol is like way underpowered in RO1.
RO1 has all kinds of stuff which could be better and thats ok, but I just wonder what the pistol would be like in RO2.

The pistol in RO1 is perfect in the amount of damage it deals and the recoils it gets, however where I feel the pistol lacks is the mobility.
Personally I think the pistol should be able to aim down the sight while jogging (or at least faster than a-step-at-a-time like it is now).
Recently someone mentioned a compromise between the current ADS and hip modes (like swat teams, running indoors with the smg at their shoulders), and this is kind of where I want to go with this.
But, even without this last function of a hybrid-ads-hip stance I think the pistol should have this.
The main advantage of the pistol is the single handed use (depend on training) and the lack of a buttstock. It doesnt need to be put up against the shoulder which takes time, it is failry easy to keep steady due to the light weight and it is an extension of the arm which makes it extremely fast in aiming. Note that I am not talking about iron sights lining up perfectly!

I have some experience in handguns (only thing allowed at my former gunclub) and I feel the pistols are just extremely slow compared to the real deal.

Short version: Don't make it CoD, that would be the last thing I want. But it should at least be faster than raising a rifle and sacrifice accuracy for walking speeds during aiming.

If this has been discussed before, my apologies for bringing it up

 

[REZ]

My want for the pistols is simple.. make it so you can actually connect with an enemy at less than 20 feet if you are in iron sights. It's like the bullets come out of the gun at a 45 degree angle. I can't count how many times I've gone into iron sights with a pistol at spitting distance and missed the whole clip.. even when firing slowly and re-aiming after each shot.

And before some pistol defender comes in here and says 'oh, you dont understand the distances in game' I'm talking about situations where I'm standing behind an enemy who doesnt know I'm there.. it couldnt be more than 2 feet behind him.. I sit in iron sights for a second and keep it trained right in center mass and the gun will miss! It happens all the time. Please tighten up the accuracy of the pistols sub 20-30 feet.

 

[Flogger23m]

Two feet behind him? That must be lag. I am far more accurate than that with all of the pistols in RO1 at that distance.

 

[Grobut]

Two feet behind him? That must be lag. I am far more accurate than that with all of the pistols in RO1 at that distance.

Missing with a whole mag from 2 feet does sound like lag, but regardless, the man has a point, all the pistols had terrible accuracy in Ost, much worse than they should have.

I certainly don't want them to become lasers like they are in many games, but some tweaking of the accuracy is definately in order.

 

[Frostedfire]

My want for the pistols is simple.. make it so you can actually connect with an enemy at less than 20 feet if you are in iron sights. It's like the bullets come out of the gun at a 45 degree angle. I can't count how many times I've gone into iron sights with a pistol at spitting distance and missed the whole clip.. even when firing slowly and re-aiming after each shot.

And before some pistol defender comes in here and says 'oh, you dont understand the distances in game' I'm talking about situations where I'm standing behind an enemy who doesnt know I'm there.. it couldnt be more than 2 feet behind him.. I sit in iron sights for a second and keep it trained right in center mass and the gun will miss! It happens all the time. Please tighten up the accuracy of the pistols sub 20-30 feet.

they had almost as bad accuracy as the ppsh, once emptied the entire 71 rounds at someone across one of the upstairs rooms in fallenfighters from prone (couldn't have been more than 10m away) and he was not only unscathed, but had time to reload before sniping me

edit: make it like the pistols in DH, they reached a good distance before you couldn't hit anyone

 

[Actin]

Although the accuracy of the pistol is sh*tty at best and it does need to be corrected; that was not really the subject of the thread

 

[VariousNames]

they had almost as bad accuracy as the ppsh, once emptied the entire 71 rounds at someone across one of the upstairs rooms in fallenfighters from prone (couldn't have been more than 10m away) and he was not only unscathed, but had time to reload before sniping me

I guarantee you that was not the fault of the PPSH.

That thing can hit a Reichsmark at a thousand meters.

 

[Forssen]

If there was momentum for spinning in the game that would be one area where you could demonstrate the mobility of pistols. It would however probably make the controls feel unresponsive.

Gun collision is in the game so instead of raising the pistol into the air when close to the wall you could to a certain degree move it closer to the body instead.

 

[Nikita]

Check this out:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLCFCMfy9CA&feature=player_embedded#at=490" target="_blank">YouTube - ‪Gamescom 2010: Prezentacja gry Red Orchestra: Heroes of Stalingrad (część 1)‬‏

at 7:55, you see the C96 Mauser in action. Not only does it appear that the pistols snap into iron sights faster, but Ramm-Jaeger makes four kills with iron sights firing rapidly with relative ease, including two headshots, though albeit at short range.

I think this is good evidence to suggest that our concerns have been somewhat addressed. He didn't jog in iron sights, but the faster movement speed and quicker reaction time of the pistol both look improved.

 

[Floyd]

Practical pistol shoot much?
What pray tell would be the purpose of even attempting to jog while in iron sights with a pistol?...much less a WWII rifle?

RE: the video....Personally, I didn't like that the pistol snapped back into precisely the same sight picture after each round. Wouldn't that be a wonderful feature to have irl?

I also didn't like the insta-switch from rifle to pistol. No unbuttoning of the holster? Whats he wearing and IPSC holster? And visa versa. What do we do? Drop our pistols on the ground and insta-produce our rifle again?

I say these things tongue-in-cheek. I realize its a game and that nearly everyone today expects insta-switch with weapons with instant reset from recoil. But I can dream of the day can't I?..

While I will concede to the OP's claim that it may be quicker and easier to bring a pistol up to iron sights with good sight picture (than it is with a rifle) may hold true for the heavy and unwieldy long rifles of WWII, such is not the case with most of today's weapons. In fact, having a pysical contact or pivot point for reference makes bringing a stocked weapon up and on target easier and much more precise.

As for me, the last thing I want to rely on in the battlefield is a side-arm....

 

[Nikita]

Practical pistol shoot much?
What pray tell would be the purpose of even attempting to jog while in iron sights with a pistol?...much less a WWII rifle?

RE: the video....Personally, I didn't like that the pistol snapped back into precisely the same sight picture after each round. Wouldn't that be a wonderful feature to have irl?

I also didn't like the insta-switch from rifle to pistol. No unbuttoning of the holster? Whats he wearing and IPSC holster? And visa versa. What do we do? Drop our pistols on the ground and insta-produce our rifle again?

I say these things tongue-in-cheek. I realize its a game and that nearly everyone today expects insta-switch with weapons with instant reset from recoil. But I can dream of the day can't I?..

Have faith in Tripwire!

There will be no instant reset even discounting recoil completely, because of the breathing and sway systems (which will also remove the infamous binocular-snipe tactic). At any rate, Red Orchestra has never had particularly strong recoil for pistols. Firing a shot displaces the tip of the barrel far less with a pistol than with a rifle in-game. Therefore, firing rapidly with a pistol at a target maybe ten meters away might look like the sights are returning to the same point every time when this isn't the case. In practice in-game, if you go into iron sights while standing and fire four shots quickly at a tree stump, the sights won't budge more than a couple centimeters from your aiming point even if you make zero adjustments. Furthermore, John presumably knows how to play Red Orchestra and is likely compensating for recoil. His targets are also ten meters away at the most. I'm sure that if he was trying to shoot somebody with a pistol at 30 meters, that kind of rapid fire wouldn't get him far.

Recoil compensation was a huge skill needed to play RO:O. I can't see why TW would ever change that key aspect of gameplay, especially as it's already implemented.

Weapons do switch rather quickly, it's true, but keep in mind that this footage is alpha gameplay from last year. Things may change. I mean, in this version shown here even the sounds are all placeholder still.

 

[REZ]

I should apologize to Actin.. I was the first to post in your thread and I immediately steered the topic astray. I'm sorry

I also didn't like the insta-switch from rifle to pistol. No unbuttoning of the holster? Whats he wearing and IPSC holster? And visa versa. What do we do? Drop our pistols on the ground and insta-produce our rifle again?

I say these things tongue-in-cheek. I realize its a game and that nearly everyone today expects insta-switch with weapons with instant reset from recoil. But I can dream of the day can't I?..

Oh man, I'm right there with you. I have the same dream. Either no game clock or a significantly longer amount of time to complete objectives, and truer-to-life weapon switching so as to create a slightly slower more thought out game.. as opposed to spawn, sprint, nade, hip-shot, die, repeat.

Dammit! There I am off-topic again. SORRY ACTIN!

 

[Colt .45 killer]

no no, really lets drag this off topic while I suggest that the relaxed realism mode should have this switch speed, and the full realism mode should have the slower weapon switching.

 

[jalex3]

no no, really lets drag this off topic while I suggest that the relaxed realism mode should have this switch speed, and the full realism mode should have the slower weapon switching.

I think thats what most people want, seems silly for riflemen to be wiping an smg out of their arse at lighting speed. as for the pistol swap speed im not as fussed because they will be alot less common.

 

[Nimsky]

Yeah, the pistols in RO:O weren't very good. Their accuracy and damage were all wrong and your character held it way too close to his face. I have made a thread about this before, suggesting that the pistols in RO2 should handle like those in Killing Floor; held at arm's lenght, quick animations and being able to fire them while bringing up the iron sights.

EDIT: yeah, realistic weapon switch times are necessary too. Can you imagine someone shooting at you with a PPsH, emptying the entire drum and then pulling out an MG 34 from his pants and begin firing that as well? Well, that's going to be possible if they keep the insta-switch.

 

[Actin]

First of all; Apology accepted REZ
Also it is not that I don't enjoy the off-topic part, just the lack of on-topic

Also after seeing the video I still have my major concern about the pistol which all of you kind of fail to grasp.

The aim speed is quicker which is fine, but the walking speed is stioll extremely slow.
I have fired pistols myself and I know that aiming them properly needs perfect stability (=standing still).

But what I want is kind of put forward by Floyd "As for me, the last thing I want to rely on in the battlefield is a side-arm...." and Nikita "His targets are also ten meters away at the most."

It is a weapon for very close combat, when a rifle or MG is not very handy to fire with (remembers runing on stairways holding a MG34).
In this close combat, I don't need to line up my pistol perfectly to shoot someone 50 meters away. The only thing what I want is draw my gun and fire a few rounds in someone's direction while looking for cover or retreating in the former room. Also do understand, I don't want to jog while doing this, but some faster pace than 1 step a minute is what I am looking for, sacrificing the unneeded accuracy.

Short version: Pistol is for close combat and desparate situation, no accuracy is needed imho and I would sacrifice that for some faster walking speeds while aiming.

Again off-topic is ok REZ, IS2 approves that,just keep in mind this is my main point
(I edited my 'short version' in the opening post, seeing it doesn't gave my main point. bad summary...)

Love,
Actin