Anti-Demo Siren Upgrade?

[OCAdam]

(doesn't seem to be many threads about the Siren... or so a search on Siren gave)

I know the Siren already has a decent ability to destroy explosives in her scream radius, but all I've ever noticed is she gets close to players before screaming, which isn't too effective at the grenade disintegration part of her ability.

So, what I propose is to have an additional time for her to scream. When a demo fires a grenade, or just any player throws a grenade (incendiary or explosive grenade) and it's in her scream radius, she'll immediately try to scream and disintegrate the projectile. While this would seem to be pretty useless overall, it certainly gives her some extra survivability against a Demo, and also a side effect. Obviously if she's in a crowd when this happens, she basically just protected the crowd from obliteration.

So in essence, this would turn the Siren into something of an explosives defense for the Specimens. The only real problem with this is a probable need to increase her scream radius due to the speed of the M79/M32 grenades. That, or she could simply start a scream while the projectile is in a bit larger radius than her scream is, just to give something of a preemptive anti-projectile scream.

 

[Aze]

I think the Siren is annoying enough already, really. No need to make here even more powerful. Imo, ofc.

 

[rautamiekka]

She actually could use this upgrade.

 

[CandleJack]

I think that making her invulnerable to Demolitions would be a step too far.

As it is, she's fine against Demolitions.

If this were to happen, it would be like Pre-M10 Firebug vs an FP. Quite impossible really.

 

[OCAdam]

Well, possibly make her ignore Pipebombs to make a sort of counter? I've just seen that Demo, although expensive, is quite powerful against nearly anything. I was mostly thinking that this would require teams to take down the Siren first if they want to have their Demo be effective for incoming crowds.

I just see that the Demo is too powerful against ranged crowds. Yes, it takes skill to play a good Demo, and good money to get started, but it kinda makes things a bit... too easy with a good Demo around.

Maybe this should be tested a tad in a subsequent beta for a new patch? Who knows, it might make things impossible like you say Candle (or near impossible if that's what you meant), or it might add in another element of teamplay.

 

[Vintage]

The demo is powerful against everything because his weapons are extremely expensive and he runs out of ammo quickly if he doesn't conserve his shots. On the higher difficulties the team often needs to invest in the demo so he can afford pipe bombs as well as full ammo for his launchers.

 

[CandleJack]

Well, possibly make her ignore Pipebombs to make a sort of counter? I've just seen that Demo, although expensive, is quite powerful against nearly anything. I was mostly thinking that this would require teams to take down the Siren first if they want to have their Demo be effective for incoming crowds.

I just see that the Demo is too powerful against ranged crowds. Yes, it takes skill to play a good Demo, and good money to get started, but it kinda makes things a bit... too easy with a good Demo around.

Maybe this should be tested a tad in a subsequent beta for a new patch? Who knows, it might make things impossible like you say Candle (or near impossible if that's what you meant), or it might add in another element of teamplay.

Quite nearly impossible. If the Siren exploded every grenade launched at her, then all of a sudden Demolitions if nerfed very, very hard. No other perk has a specimen they have no chance against, so Demolitions should not either.

Even a Firebug stood some chance against Scrakes and Fleshpounds prior to the M10. Not much, but some.

By eliminating Demolition's ability to kill a specimen with perked weapons you make one perk unable to beat a common enemy.

 

[OCAdam]

Hmm... well, how about the grenades being weakened instead of outright disintegrated? Not giving the Siren an explosives resistance specifically, but giving in essence a radius of 'resistance' for all Specs caught in the blast radius?

 

[poosh]

I think the Siren is annoying enough already, really. No need to make here even more powerful. Imo, ofc.

I think the same. Imagine 2 Fleshpounds covered from behind by Siren. FP is hude, Siren is small, so you practically can't see her behind them to kill. And if she will have increased anti-demo ability, that will made FP invulnerable to demo attacks.

Already Sirens are weakening demos a lot, mostly by destroying pipebombs. Especially annoying is Siren's feature (or I would say - bug) to scream after death. Sometimes dead Siren can fly over the team, hurting a lot and destroying all pipebombs around.

 

[Aze]

Imagine 2 Fleshpounds covered from behind by Siren. FP is hude, Siren is small, so you practically can't see her behind them to kill. And if she will have increased anti-demo ability, that will made FP invulnerable to demo attacks.

This is also a very common situation. So, it would make one of Demos main jobs, dispatching Fleshies, close to impossible. Thus I repeat: No thank you, the Siren is enough of a b!tch already

 

[ph30nix]

not to mention i have seen times where her scream will destroy m79 and m32 shots in midair (i think only when they are still in the dud stage of flight)

 

[ljM]

Could this not be added, but with another drawback to her ability?

ie. the specimens take half of the damage of what the explosives would of caused by the sirens scream.

The specimens, do after all, feel pain, so why are they completely immune to sirens scream if it hurts players so bad?

The fact that the specimens only take half damage stops the ability being used in a glitch context, but it still makes her more anti-explosive, which is what the suggestion wants!

 

[Benjamin]

I'm not sure how this'd work, since due to the speed of the grenades the siren scream would have to happen quite literally within a frame or two, and it'd look really glitchy to suddenly see the siren's scream animation playing half way through and an instant scream. If not, she wouldn't be quick enough.

 

[sverek]

Imagine if you launch missile in 20 zeds, and right before it kills them off, single siren just cancels it.

I think siren need nerf to prevent it from randomly destroying all pipes around, cause single noob decided to rush her.

 

[Uk1t4k3]

A siren on HoE mode can remove half of your health unless you're berserker which IMO is really imba. Plus she can remove all your pipebombs and grenades within her effective radius and ability to pull you in.

 

[poosh]

I think siren need nerf to prevent it from randomly destroying all pipes around, cause single noob decided to rush her.

No, I think it's OK, because demo must use brains how to place pipes more effectively, and also a good team must protect pipes from Sirens and headless Bloats (typical situation when headless Bloat walking to the pipe, but supports don't shoot at him, because saving ammo).

But what should be really fixed: if Siren decided to scream, she doesn't care about she is alive or dead - she will scream anyway, so killing her in that moment doesn't change anything - your pipes will be lost.

 

[outofrealman]

I would rather sirens scream sets off ANY kind of explosive instead of making them gone completely.