I just got a war make '43 9130 and I have to say the fit and finish isnt even 1/2 as good as my relatives 9130 made prewar ( never mind the quality of the metalwork ). I'd like to suggest a pre war 9130 as an upgrade to a war make model.
Rifleman upgrade.
- Thread starter Colt .45 killer
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Thats a good idea, but what about the Germans who had pretty much the same quality control for all their guns?
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I'm not proficient on all of my mauser info, I do know that there were a few makes in different calibers, afaik the germans used only 7.92x57 mausers ( otherwise could offer some other calibers ). Again afaik the germans were no longer using the 98 ( non Karbine ) in the second world war. ( thats another possible upgrade, increased accuracy ).
The only other 'upgrades' from there would be a pinched russian mosin nagant, or a SVT 40(for semi rifleman). I do know that there were a lot of svt's being captured by german forces who loved the gun.
The only other 'upgrades' from there would be a pinched russian mosin nagant, or a SVT 40(for semi rifleman). I do know that there were a lot of svt's being captured by german forces who loved the gun.
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A lot of people don't want a team to spawn with enemy weapons, there were some maps on Ost that were like that.
It might be a good idea on some maps with some weapons, I know the Germans liked to use captured PPsh's and SVT's, and I've seen alot of pictures of Russians with MP40's.
So while I don't want this game to be like COD, it would be cool to see higher ranking players being able to use certain enemy weapons, or maybe on certain maps having access to enemy weapons.
I want the early maps to have standard issue weapons for each side, with limited smg's, and then for most of the maps to mix it up a bit, then for maps later on in the battle to have almost everyone equipped with PPsh's and pistols.
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I don't really understand this. What's the point of it?
First of all what upgrades would a German rifleman get then? A Gewehr 98 wouldn't be an upgrade, it would just be a longer & heavier rifle with the same accuracy. And a captured Mosin Nagant would certainly not be an upgrade either, it would be just the opposite, a direct downgrade instead, so there's no point in that at all.
In short, I don't like this upgrading of weapons idea at all, it's pointless.
On the other hand I think as you get more experienced then more weapons within your class should become available to you.
An example:
Level 1 Rifleman: Bolt Rifle + Bayonet + 2x Hand Grenades
Level 2 Rifleman: Bolt Rifle + Bayonet + 2x Hand Grenades + Pistol
Level 3 Rifleman: Bolt Rifle + Bayonet + 2x Hand Grenades + Pistol + Rifle Grenade
Level 4 Rifleman: Bolt Rifle or Semi Auto Rifle + Bayonet + 2x Hand Grenades + Pistol + Rifle Grenade
Level 5 Rifleman: Bolt Rifle, Semi Auto Rifle or Full Auto/Assault Rifle + Bayonet + 2x Hand Grenades + 1x Smoke Grenade + Pistol + Rifle Grenade
Now this is just an example, I have no idea how many levels of experience there are, or how the system is going to work. But I'd prefer something like the above.
First of all what upgrades would a German rifleman get then? A Gewehr 98 wouldn't be an upgrade, it would just be a longer & heavier rifle with the same accuracy. And a captured Mosin Nagant would certainly not be an upgrade either, it would be just the opposite, a direct downgrade instead, so there's no point in that at all.
In short, I don't like this upgrading of weapons idea at all, it's pointless.
On the other hand I think as you get more experienced then more weapons within your class should become available to you.
An example:
Level 1 Rifleman: Bolt Rifle + Bayonet + 2x Hand Grenades
Level 2 Rifleman: Bolt Rifle + Bayonet + 2x Hand Grenades + Pistol
Level 3 Rifleman: Bolt Rifle + Bayonet + 2x Hand Grenades + Pistol + Rifle Grenade
Level 4 Rifleman: Bolt Rifle or Semi Auto Rifle + Bayonet + 2x Hand Grenades + Pistol + Rifle Grenade
Level 5 Rifleman: Bolt Rifle, Semi Auto Rifle or Full Auto/Assault Rifle + Bayonet + 2x Hand Grenades + 1x Smoke Grenade + Pistol + Rifle Grenade
Now this is just an example, I have no idea how many levels of experience there are, or how the system is going to work. But I'd prefer something like the above.
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The example would create an imbalance, and pistol is kind of unrealistic.
And to go on topic, seems like a cool idea.
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with that system, regular rifleman become some sort of super-class with everything packed in.
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You of all the posters here should understand what he meant.
He's referring to manufacture date of the standard issue firearms. As a collector of surplus rifles....wouldn't you agree that it would be preferable to have a 1938 manufacture Kar98k to a 1945 Volksturm issue Kar98k? He's saying two things. One, that manufacture quality should be variable, and that higher ranking players should be given early manufacture date firearms of the same design to reflect that higher status.
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Well it would naturally depend on the map and military unit what weapons and equipment you'd be able to pick despite the level. I'm not suggesting that riflemen should have the following equipment available to them on all maps, or that there should be unlimited slots for max level riflemen, or heroes as they are called ingame.
To be honest though, I really don't like the whole "hero" idea.
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But this is in 1941, the Germans would have only made minor changes to make production quicker at the very most. You won't see much of a difference.
Quality did suffer for Mosins, though, my 1943 m91/30 has a significantly longer and heavier trigger pull than my friends 1938 m91/30. And Finn Mosins are much nicer than the rest...
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I understand perfectly well what he's saying, problem is that I'm having trouble connecting it to reality.
The status of a soldier is usually represented by his official rank, not the build quality of his weapon. For example, a German officer wasn't equipped with an MP40 of higher build quality than those carried by the regular troops. Also highly decorated soldiers weren't given better made weapons than their regular comrades either.
I don't believe the Russians were any different on this behalf, atleast I have seen no proof of that.
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I'm sure VariousNames knows that, he's merely pointing out the clear difference between a K98k and a VK98. There is no real difference in quality between Karabiner 98k's made from 1935 to 1944 though, infact high quality K98k's were still being manufactured in 1945, albeit very few.
The VK98 rifles were made exclusively in 1945, using inferior materials, different barrel designs, looser tolerances etc etc.. quality control was pretty much non-existant for the VK98's.
Indeed. Wartime Mosin Nagants are of a more crude manufacture than the pre war ones. But infact even the pre war M91's don't reach standards of wartime German K98k rifles when it comes to the metal work, the stocks are usually quite nice though.
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I don't see too much that can be done with the rifleman kit weaponwise. You could give the mosin variants that appeared in ROOST, but even if they are historically accurate for the time period, I know I mainly stick to the basic 9130, so thats a pretty useless upgrade imo
maybe something along these lines
1. slightly reduced recoil
2. allowing the rifleman to take 1 frag grenade
3. slightly reduced sway
4. allowing the rifleman to take 2 frag grenades
5. expanded ammo capacity to 2 stripper clips (not realistic at all but I'm just throwing out ideas)
The mosin carbine may be more useful now because we have weapon collision though so maybe instead of increased capacity, give the carbine for better indoors handling.
maybe something along these lines
1. slightly reduced recoil
2. allowing the rifleman to take 1 frag grenade
3. slightly reduced sway
4. allowing the rifleman to take 2 frag grenades
5. expanded ammo capacity to 2 stripper clips (not realistic at all but I'm just throwing out ideas)
The mosin carbine may be more useful now because we have weapon collision though so maybe instead of increased capacity, give the carbine for better indoors handling.
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I suggested having a few maps where everyone has smg's and pistols, but giving most of the riflemen pistols would actually be more of an advantage at close range, thus turning Stalingrad into a big NYPD cops and robbers style shootout.
I think the only people with pistols should be the commander, squad leaders, sniper, MG, PTRD, and elite classes.
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I would agree that only the elite classes should have pistols.
My idea was simply that as you increased in level you should get more weapons to choose from within your class. I wasn't trying say that all players in the end will be running around with pistols & rifle grenades when they've reached the max level.
Here's how I'd actually like to see the different classes equipped:
Rifleman: Bolt Rifle + Bayonet + 1x Hand Grenade (Hero option: Semi Auto rifle or extra hand grenade or a rifle grenade)
Machine Gunner: LMG + Bayonet/Shovel + Pistol (Hero option: ?? no hero MG'er I guess
)Assault troop: SMG + Bayonet + 2x Hand Grenade (Hero option: Mkb.42(H) [Ger] or AVT40 [Rus])
Marksman: Scoped Bolt Rifle + Bayonet/Shovel + Pistol (Hero option: 6x Scoped K98k [Ger] or PU Scoped SVT40 [Rus])
Officer: SMG + Pistol + Binocs + 1x Smoke Grenade + 1x Hand Grenade (Hero option: Mkb.42(H) [Ger] or AVT40 [Rus])
And IMO heroes of each class should naturally be limited to 1 at most, or none at all on some maps.
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Assault drums was mentioned during the Bashandslash TWI visit.Machine Gunner: LMG + Bayonet/Shovel + Pistol (Hero option: ?? no hero MG'er I guess
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This is my opinion:
Level 1: Standard K98 (Standard ammunition, standard build-quality), single loading of shells.
Level 2: Standard K98 with dialed in sights for increased accuracy.
Level 3: Standard K98 with stripper clip 5-round magazines
Level 4: Standard K98 with higher quality manufactured bullets for increased accuacy.
Level 5: Standard K98 with all the afforementioned additions plus higher quality bolt-action for quicker reloading of individual shells.
Sturm
Level 1: Standard K98 (Standard ammunition, standard build-quality), single loading of shells.
Level 2: Standard K98 with dialed in sights for increased accuracy.
Level 3: Standard K98 with stripper clip 5-round magazines
Level 4: Standard K98 with higher quality manufactured bullets for increased accuacy.
Level 5: Standard K98 with all the afforementioned additions plus higher quality bolt-action for quicker reloading of individual shells.
Sturm
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Well, I did really figure the whole idea behind manufacturing standards and standard issue equipment was to....well....give armies the same equipment, including the same quality of munitions. It's just asinine to extrapolate the fact that there might have been QA issues to say that therefore soldiers received preferential issue based on their "veterancy status."
In particular, this sounds silly to me because many of the soldiers on the eve of Op Barbarossa would have been on the Polish/French campaigns and would have "vetted up" significantly before arriving in Stalingrad.
Also, it seems to me the only thing anybody here can establish is that manufacturing quality was only reduced under wartime duress....sort of like the personnel, who would have been last fleet. The core Reichswehr actually would have been the elite troops of the German army, followed by strongly trained secret troops "lucky" enough to see action in western Europe before the eastern invasion.
None of this level of skill correlates to better standard issue equipment, and it doesn't even necessarily have to correlate with how long they survived the conflict. The best soldiers, as it were, may very well have been those who perished in the front lines on the initial invasion, as they were the best trained and the "cream of the crop" core Reichswehr.
In particular, this sounds silly to me because many of the soldiers on the eve of Op Barbarossa would have been on the Polish/French campaigns and would have "vetted up" significantly before arriving in Stalingrad.
Also, it seems to me the only thing anybody here can establish is that manufacturing quality was only reduced under wartime duress....sort of like the personnel, who would have been last fleet. The core Reichswehr actually would have been the elite troops of the German army, followed by strongly trained secret troops "lucky" enough to see action in western Europe before the eastern invasion.
None of this level of skill correlates to better standard issue equipment, and it doesn't even necessarily have to correlate with how long they survived the conflict. The best soldiers, as it were, may very well have been those who perished in the front lines on the initial invasion, as they were the best trained and the "cream of the crop" core Reichswehr.
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