• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

The concise "fix" thread

Baron

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 29, 2011
106
26
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Right now, the Suggestions board is all over the place. There are dozens of threads for each "fix" problem, and a dogpile of suggestions for new content on top of that. It is my personal opinion that what needs to be modified should be taken care of first, before adding any more content. I'm fairly certain most of you agree with me. Therefore, this thread.

I want you to vote on the three (max) perks (and their attendant weapons) that you think are the most in need of rebalancing. Then, in your post explain concisely (and hopefully also briefly) your logical argument for each, and the best fix ideas you have had or seen while browsing the forum, or if you don't have any, ask questions so that other people can speculate, also concisely.

You should be able to do each of these in two-ish sentences, because if it is logic (or at least educated opinion)-based, most people will be able to infer the rest of your argument. Or at least the smart people will. And we can agree that the wonderful people over at TWI are, in fact, smart. If you feel that it is said better elsewhere, summarize and link. Note the conciseness and facility of reading of the following examples:

~~~EXAMPLE POSTS START HERE~~~
{my actual arguments}

1) Sharpshooter
2) Firebug
3) N/A

1) The EBR treads too far into Commando territory, opinions vary widely on the Crossbow.
--The first may not be fixable. What is the best way to punish excessive spamming and reward successful headshots with this weapon? After having fixed the Iron Sights, of course.

--Reducing Xbow bolt capacity (and weight?) would (allow for inclusion of a LAR in an Xbow loadout? and) privilege accuracy, target selection and bolt recovery. It would also reduce dosh waste when in a hurry and clicking the '100%' or 'Auto-Fill' buttons.

2) Firebug lacks sufficient weapon diversity and is widely considered useless on higher difficulties [sic?].
--The first should be put off because it involves adding new content, which requires further rebalancing. Defeats the purpose.

--Further increases to clip size permit spamming behaviour and should be avoided.

--Is the perk damage increase to immediate fire damage, or to all burn damage? What could be done to either or both of these to make FB more relevant of higher difficulties without making it overpowered?

~~~

For the sake of conciseness, later posts which repeat should go something like this:

~~~
{theoretical reply}

Baron said:
--[Adding new FB weapons] should be put off...
-1. Lack of diversity makes this perk objectively less interesting because of lack of the all-important Player Choice. This problem is so pressing that the benefit outweighs the cost.
Baron said:
Reducing Xbow bolt capacity (and weight?)...
+1 on capacity, -1 on weight. Xbow + LAR is potentially OP.
Baron said:
Firebug ... is widely considered useless on higher difficulties [sic?]
-1. Sic.

~~~EXAMPLE POSTS END HERE~~~

Threetwoone...GO! And for God's Sake, try to keep off-topic to a minimum. We're trying to be concise here. TWI might give us brownie points for making their jobs easier.

EDIT: Balance problems should be universal (all difficulties). Serious question: is it too much to ask that the game be mostly balanced across all difficulty levels (with exception of beginner; it's for beginners), with perk levelling being used to help with difficulty issues which arise from changing health and damage settings?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Dolphin Buff Man
2) Firebug lacks sufficient weapon diversity and is widely considered useless on higher difficulties [sic?].

What could be done to either or both of these to make FB more relevant of higher difficulties without making it overpowered?

-1

Gonna have to be blunt here and simply say "Only by people who don't know how to play the perk".

Spoiler!


People who main as Firebug are rare its true, because its a learned class, but they all understand these principles. Giving him more ammuntion or damage ruins his DoT principle and also makes him overpowered.

So as a favour to me and all Firebugs who already love the perk, leave him alone. Last thing I want for him is to become the new Berserker.
 
Upvote 0
Asking for clarification is great. More input is even better. Please remember to either up/down other people's suggestions, or to add your own, in addition to whatever else you may want to post. Also remember to provide sufficient detail, in the form of a short explanation, and/or a precise quote (point-by-point is easier to read than one huge wallquote), and/or a link (in order of preference). Wrapping spoiler tags around extra explanation is also a valid strategy. Props to Undedd Jester for that one.

Sorry to nitpick, but the whole idea is 'maximum input, minimum verbiage'. Editing your posts when you come up with new ideas is a great way to achieve this.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Alright, i like this, great idea! :D

-=Sharpshooter=-

+1 to the M14 problem of close to being a Commando styled weapon. I have recognised the problem but the usual soluyion on adding a scope seems to be knocked back a fair bit...

EDIT: Sorry going to have to go into depth here... Crossbow is fine to be a powerful weapon in the hands of Sharpshooters, but it is probably slightly too powerful, maybe drop the damage multiplier by one or something. I like the idea of the Sharpshooter being able to Headshot Flesh Pounds on Hell On Earth in 2 shots. No more no less. This is of course a level 6 Sharpshooter. The rst of the team has still got a lot of stuff to deal with even with a FleshPound down, so I don't believe it is overpowered.

-=Field Medic=-

There seems to be a slight glitch in the firing of the medication dart. Sometimes it won't register that it has hit the person. This seems like an obvious thing to fix but I don't know how hard it will be.

-=General stuff=-

The grenade glitch seems to affect us all. Sometimes randomly the grenade will be seen to fly half way across the map (where you intended) but suddenly you die. Don't know why it happens but this has casued many people grief before.

Thanks for the cool thread, should be good. :D
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Alright, i like this, great idea! :D

-=Sharpshooter=-

+1 to the M14 problem of close to being a Commando styled weapon. I have recognised the problem but the usual soluyion on adding a scope seems to be knocked back a fair bit...

Crossbow is fine to be a powerful weapon in the hands of Sharpshooters, but it is probably slightly too powerful, maybe drop the damage multiplier by one or something.

-=Field Medic=-

There seems to be a slight glitch in the firing of the medication dart. Sometimes it won't register that it has hit the person. This seems like an obvious thing to fix but I don't know how hard it will be.

-=General stuff=-

The grenade glitch seems to affect us all. Sometimes randomly the grenade will be seen to fly half way across the map (where you intended) but suddenly you die. Don't know why it happens but this has casued many people grief before.

Thanks for the cool thread, should be good. :D

SS
+1 on the m14,
-1(or actually maybe +1) on the crossbow (it is not too powerful, its just right)

Medic
+1 there are many medigun bugs, which can be annoying.
 
Upvote 0
Didn't you agree on increased afterburn damage per level, though?

Nah, think you might be thinking of someone else, or mis understood me :)

I'm one of those who vermently argues against buffing the ammunition or damage of the Firebug. The point of the class is to do damage over time to slow down and weaken large pools of zeds instead of dealing a large amount of damage to 1 ZED. I wouldn't have him any other way :)
 
Upvote 0
Nah, think you might be thinking of someone else, or mis understood me :)

I'm one of those who vermently argues against buffing the ammunition or damage of the Firebug. The point of the class is to do damage over time to slow down and weaken large pools of zeds instead of dealing a large amount of damage to 1 ZED. I wouldn't have him any other way :)
:s
 
Upvote 0
Just getting better ironscope for M14 or add some clear scope would be enough. Even lower rpm would be welcomed, so SS can shoot as aim stabilized

And get away with tweaking damage for Firebug and Crossbow. Learn to play properly. I got most kills as lvl4 firebug for HoE, being surrounded by level6s. And crossbow doesn't suppose to annihilate everything and promote ramboing. Just get over it.
 
Upvote 0
...changes to the M14.

I was gonna make the suggestion of lowering the M14's base damage to 65, the same as the SCAR, but then ramping up its headshot multiplier to give it a little higher damage than it does now, making it a real head buster but at the expense of spammability, making it preferable to the LAR. LAR would obviously perform better against hard to headshot foes like the stalker and crawler.


+1 to something in this vein.
 
Upvote 0
TWI might give us brownie points for making their jobs easier.

There was just a rebalancing and I doubt another will be any time soon. Personally the rebalancing, IMO, made the zerker even more OP and nerfed the SS a little too much (by taking away the reload bonus), but what is done is done and don't expect anything to change for a very long time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lewt and Nanostrike
Upvote 0

Yeah my arguement there was that buff to the Firebugs crisp effect doesn't alter the perk from its intended role.

Making specimens crisp faster doesn't kill them any faster, it merely slows them down sooner making it easier to control the horde. I didn't feel it was really needed but if a buff had to be added, that would be the one I would vote for :)
 
Upvote 0
My main is firebug from many hours of playing the class i think it's just fine. Mainly players think it's overpowered becuase on hard and below you basically kill everything buy yourself. The firebug on higher difficulty shows there true colors and you are become more of offense support type which other players get comepletely turned off buy this becuase they will run out of ammo quickly trying to kill everything. The firebug doesn't need more damage or ammo as a buff The class fills it role quite well as long as team works together.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Undedd Jester
Upvote 0
Yeah my arguement there was that buff to the Firebugs crisp effect doesn't alter the perk from its intended role.

Making specimens crisp faster doesn't kill them any faster, it merely slows them down sooner making it easier to control the horde. I didn't feel it was really needed but if a buff had to be added, that would be the one I would vote for :)

Oh!
I get it now. My bad sorry.
 
Upvote 0
LOL. The Sacred Cows are gonna make an appearance in this thread before much happens. There'll be an immediate reply of basically "Nu-uh! You just don't know how to USE IT!" if you criticize either the Machete or Firebug in any way... No offense, but it's already happened with Jester and Firebug.

If anyone mentions the Machete being crappy, you can bet a regular will pop up defending it too... I don't feel it's very conductive in working towards a solution. Just because it's fine to a few people doesn't mean it's fine for everyone, or even a majority. Like I said, not trying to offend anyone, just needed to get that off my chest.



I'll avoid subjective stuff and stick to mentioning the few things that almost everyone I've played with agrees on universally right now. I don't really have any perfect fixes, but they're pretty serious problems. These are a few possible solutions. I'm not saying use all of 'em or even any, but they're some fix ideas I have:

Problem: M14 EBR doesn't perform like a Tier 3 Weapon at all.
Solution: Pray for a miracle to fix this disaster of a gun? In all seriousness...start with better sights, possible addition of scope.

Problem: Bullpup is almost completely useless on higher difficulties compared to the AK47
Solution: Give the Bullpup a secondary feature of some sort. Extended mag (Only for commando), Underbarrel Grenade Launcher (Uses hand grenades but makes them explode on impact), Flashlight (Or Flare Launcher), or extension of the Commando's Cloak Detection/Health Viewing range.

Problem: Pipe Bombs are expensive to the point that they lose their usefulness on higher difficulties and are utterly useless for anyone but Demoman unless there's an excess of cash.
Solution: Cheaper cost/Bigger Demo Discount or Manual Detonation (Alt fire lays a pipe in "Manual" mode. New item added to slot 4 or 5 to "Detonate" all manual pipes).

Problem: Dual 9mms and Dual Handcannons are largely useless due to innaccuracy and wasted ammo.
Solution: Add Laser Sight to dual Handcannons. (Possibly add permanent laser sight to 9mms too. It would have to be permanent so you can keep the Flashlight feature), add a Perk that uses Dual Handguns (Gunslinger. Yeah, a radical solution, but it's an idea). Give dual Handguns significantly increased ammo reserves to make up for their innaccuracy.
 
Upvote 0
M14 EBR...
Solution: Better sights, possible addition of scope.
+1 Sights, ~+1 Scope (Maybe just better zoom)
Problem: Bullpup is almost completely useless on higher difficulties compared to the AK47
Solution: Give the Bullpup a secondary feature of some sort. Extended mag (Only for commando), Underbarrel Grenade Launcher (Uses hand grenades but makes them explode on impact), Flashlight (Or Flare Launcher), or extension of the Commando's Cloak Detection/Health Viewing range.
-1 More ammo (Enough as it is)
+1 GL (He's a sweeper anyway - what happens to grenade damage?)
-1 FL (Flashlight maybe, Flare Gun should be Firebug's)
-1 Range extension (Too far just gets OP - health vision)
Problem: Pipe Bombs are [prohibitively] expensive for anyone but Demoman unless there's an excess of cash.
Solution: Cheaper cost/Bigger Demo Discount or Manual Detonation (Alt fire lays a pipe in "Manual" mode. New item added to slot 4 or 5 to "Detonate" all manual pipes).
-1 All (Not a problem - they should be prohibitively expensive to prevent pipe spamming by non-demos)
Problem: Dual 9mms and Dual Handcannons are largely useless due to innaccuracy and wasted ammo.
Solution: Add Laser Sight to dual Handcannons. (Possibly add permanent laser sight to 9mms too. It would have to be permanent so you can keep the Flashlight feature), add a Perk that uses Dual Handguns (Gunslinger. Yeah, a radical solution, but it's an idea). Give dual Handguns significantly increased ammo reserves to make up for their innaccuracy.
-1 Lasers (Inaccuracy is the point of dualies - you trade accuracy for close-range DPS. Develop a mental crosshair.)
-1 Gunslinger (Potential massive balance changes required)
+1 Ammo (Sure, why not. I don't care either way.)
 
Upvote 0