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That 'feeling'

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  • #31
    One pixel hunts now. Its just at a longer range. I've never understood the pixel hunt argument. You are either pixel hunting with no zoom at 100m or pixel hunting at 200m with zoom. Either way, you're pixel hunting.


    • #32
      Nope, pixel hunting means that you dont see as far away as you would in real life, with the zoom, there were no pixel hunting.


      • #33
        Originally posted by Scarf Ace View Post
        You're completely wrong. Pixel hunting was the single biggest flaw and immersion killer in RO1.
        By stating that you agree with mee, this thread is about what makes RO2's experience different from RO1's.
        Disapproving: progression, spawn on SL, spawns close to cap (RSOD)
        Since: beta 1.0 UT2003


        • #34
          I don't feel that zooming is breaking immersion for me. I'd like even to be able to zoom in at all times, for example to be able NOT to zoom while in CQC or be able to zoom while leaning out of my trench to look out for threats in the area (now I have to zoom via IS, which exposes me to an enemy fire a bit too much as it's not as quick as simply poping up a head and hiding it back after less than four or three second.


          • #35
            Originally posted by u-s-e-r View Post
            Nope, pixel hunting means that you dont see as far away as you would in real life, with the zoom, there were no pixel hunting.
            I'm tempted to say semantics, but you've come up with a whole new definition. So what you're telling me is that at 200m with zoom, I'm not pixel hunting? what about 400m?

            Its pixel hunting whether or not you need to do it at 50m, 100m, or 1000m. It matters not how far away the target actually is. Its all relative. If he's only 50m away and he looks like he's 100m, then the game plays as if he's 100m. If the target is not a pixel until he's 250m away, and if you're aiming at him at 250m, he's a pixel and you're pixel hunting.

            I stand by what I previously said, pixel hunting exists with or without zoom. It just occurs at a different range. Its only a matter of associating the size of your target with his range from you and adjusting your aim (or sights) accordingly.
            Last edited by Floyd; 05-12-2012, 06:02 PM.


            • #36
              The zoom does not break the immersion for me too much. The zoom in classic mode was reduced because of the gameplay it produces, and not the "feeling".
              When I come to think of it, it's probably a combination of several factors.

              1. The map design, many of the standard maps in RO2 don't have the freedom to flank from several directions, making the combat very one sided. Appartments, Barracks and Spartanovka all feature flanking routes, but they are still very one sided flanking routes. You still have the sense of moving towards a single direction.
              Many of the custom maps in RO1 were bigger, and made clever use of blockades to twist the map into another direction.

              2. The lighting of the map. In many of the older games, the lack of a decent lighting engine did make it look uglier than modern games. But at the same time, the darkness and lack of contrast makes it look more grim.
              Where RO2 does this wrong is that many of the darker maps aren't really dark. Both MamayevKurgan and Barracks both feature a nighttime setting, but both aren't really dark, you can still easily see the enemy from quite a large distance. RO2 should really make use of darkness better and add some weather effects to the maps.


              • #37
                I can


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Floyd View Post
                  I stand by what I previously said, pixel hunting exists with or without zoom. It just occurs at a different range. Its only a matter of associating the size of your target with his range from you and adjusting your aim (or sights) accordingly.
                  Youre just nitpicking, you know what everyone means by it.


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Floyd View Post
                    I stand by what I previously said, pixel hunting exists with or without zoom. It just occurs at a different range.
                    That different range is an important variable in the equation. The problem isn't, by itself, the zoom or lack thereof, the problem is how far past the threshold you have to go on a regular basis.

                    In RO1 you started pixel hunting at 50 meters, and the maps had a ~75-meter typical engagement range. In RO2, with zoom, you start pixel hunting at around 150 meters, but the maps have ~100m typical engagement range. If you cut the zoom out, you're looking at roughly 75:100, which is flipping the ratio around entirely. Sure, that's a difference in scale rather than kind, but it's a significant difference in scale.

                    RO1 would've worked fine without zoom if every map was a Danzig.


                    • #40
                      Its very subjective. I didn't really feel like I was "pixel hunting" in RO1. This is a phenomena other people report sometimes but it was just not an issue for me, or I just didn't find it to be a negative attribute of the game.

                      If you play with 320x240 resolution, small monitor size, have poor eyesight, sit 2 meters from the screen then that will affect your idea of "pixel hunting". I exaggerate but there are variables that affect this physically. But then you also have your own perception of what is acceptable for a game, and I always felt RO hit the nail on the head by staying away from zoom, and it was an actual selling point of the game for me. It made it feel more real and the shots felt rewarding, like you actually shot someone a long way away from you. With a zoom it feels a bit cheaper, and you feel like the person isn't that far away because you zoom in. It feels like you have a sniper rifle

                      I have compromised on this though, I'd rather have none (or optional) but I will go along with how it is now in beta
                      Last edited by melipone; 05-13-2012, 01:54 PM.


                      • #41
                        Basically, what melipone said.

                        Its very subjective and all very relative. RO1 worked well for me.

                        Perhaps its just me, but when I look at an enemy player in the game (RO1 or RO2), I don't think to myself...."OH. He's fifty meters away! Damn he looks tiny." or visa versa. After playing the games a few times, I learned to either aim high (as in RO1) or raise my sights (RO2) depending upon either previous shots or based up how big or small the target is. I've never stepped off the distance between buildings or cover. If you can't find the target well enough, he must be too far away. Its time to move up. I'm sorry but the pixel arguement escapes me.

                        Zoom or no zoom. I can live with or without it. I'm not against it or for it, per se. If its there, you can be I'm going to use it. If its not, its business as usual. Find the enemy before he finds me.....

                        But back on topic.....I still say its the lack of INTENSE LOUD sound.....
                        Last edited by Floyd; 05-13-2012, 05:33 PM.


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Floyd View Post
                          But back on topic.....I still say its the lack of INTENSE LOUD sound.....
                          Try turning the volume up?

                          I find the beta classic mode in its current state a thoroughly enjoyable experience, not dissimilar to RO of old although DH still has it for intensity. All it needs is more people on the servers (a grand total of 4 people playing beta as I write) and a few more open maps!


                          • #43
                            I liked the sounds better in RO1. I'm not sure if they were better techniacally or more authentic but there was more punch to them.

                            The open maps as people mentioned.

                            While the graphics in RO2 is better, there was no swapping of LOD models and textures, and it supported better antialiasing. To me a stable picture is more important than fancy graphics.

                            As the graphics becomes better there is also the problem of the "uncanny valley". That is when virtual images (especially when it comes to humans) gets closer to photographic realism, the errors becomes more and more obvious. While RO2 isn't exactly photorealistic, I think it suffers quite a bit of this (the midget heroes of stalingrad thread comes to mind)..

                            Gameplay was better, which classic fixes.
                            Last edited by kalle; 05-13-2012, 06:55 PM.


                            • #44
                              And it's not all the technical stuff that's already been mentioned, it was the personal nature of the game, at least for me, chatting ggs or nice shot etc, it was fun. Having played classic in the beta recently, it has come a long long way closer to RO1 in mechanics/style, and I have very high hopes for it. I hope the fun comes back too. TWB*SlowBull
                              ASUS M5A99X EVO R2.0, ASUS GTX650TI-OC-2GB,AMD FX 6-Core Black Edition FX-6300,8 GB Corsair RAM,Win 7 64,SATA drive


                              • #45
                                Looks like I'll just have to Ctrl C -> Ctrl V every time somebody says "the sounds need to be louder!"

                                "We're not talking about volume here, so TWI won't get in trouble. Anyway, if we wanted more volume we could just turn up our speakers!

                                What we want is for it to sound like the guns are loud... in the game world. This requires an echo and other acoustic information. The mosin sounds are spot on for firing in a padded cell with sound dampening walls, and that just feels odd in the middle of a field or in a city street.

                                For example, comparing those first two mosin videos you can hear that the gun itself sounds the same in Hickock45s video as in the game, but the echo is MUCH longer and higher pitched.

                                Lastly, blanks are generally louder than regular rounds, by quite a large factor too! Because they use much more propellant in order to cycle the gun properly without firing a mass (usually taken by the bullet)."

                                The point is that "volume" is mostly achieved in a game through tricks, lowering other sounds or adding crazy amounts of reverberation will make somebody say, "wow, this is loud" when actual the decibel level has not changed. We need a different reverberation sound, as well as high treble bullet cracks.