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My feedback on weapons

Perun58

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 22, 2011
335
18
Czech Republic
I would like to share some thoughts about some guns in RS2, their balance and feel.
I will name only those that seem problematic to me. I either find the rest balanced and generally well made or I have no experience with it...

USA

M16 - I generally like using it a lot and it feels balanced stat-wise. However it's sights are less than ideal.
For a first, they're not correct as exhausted mentioned here:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...on-m16a1-wrong
And secondly, they're more obstructive then they should be as mentioned by Unus Offa, Unus Nex here http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ed-peep-sights
The M16 still has hands down best peep sights in the game, but that really doesn't mean that much as I will mention down bellow.

M14 - it feels a little bit overshadowed by the M16. It could be a better rifle than the M16 on large distances but it's sights are making it useless. They are much worse in my opinion than those of the M16...

M3 Grease Gun - I am sorry, but this gun seems like a complete disaster to me. I don't mind that the rate of fire is low (it's realistic, it's making gun more controllable and it shoots big bullets). But the sights are hands down the worst in the game. If this was a long range rifle it would be bad, but the fact this is a CQB gun makes it even worse.
20170319205517_1.jpg







I had really hard time killing enemies with this until I gave up and used the gun only with folded stock.

M40 - I may be missing something but why the M40 has lower power than the XM21 when they're using both same caliber?

North Vietnam

AKs - It's selector is bugged as I mentioned here http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...ector-is-wrong. It's sights are incorrect as I mentioned in the comments here http://forums.tripwireinteractive.co...n-model-issues
and the AKM has a wrong stock angle and their magazine is a little bit small. They also both have muzzlebreak with only AKM should have...
main_qimg_53d5662375ff1c4545eb64bec91c5e1b_c.jpg


Bez_n_zvu.png


It seems a little bit too inaccurate in my opinion. It could use a little accuracy buff.
 
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I hope youre not asking the Devs to create fake iron sights for these real world weapons like COD does just so the visibility of your target is easier.

i LOVE authentic iron sights.

now the m14 is harder ro acquire your target, and i believe this could be fixed by bringing the sights "closer" to the screen. Keep the sights the same but imagine if you could, that your in-game "eye" is brought in closer
 
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I do. Best solution would be making the ring transparent, but I don't know if it's possible. Realistic sight picture is more important than realistic models. These are NOT authentic iron sights.

This is how M1 garand sights look like:
grd094a.jpg









And this is what you see:
m1_garand_upgrade__ironsight_by_bulletinyurass-d397m25.jpg





quite a difference isn't it?






Sights in the game have already bigger holes than in real life, otherwise you would not see anything at all. But they are still far from realistic sight picture.

Grease gun sights in real life are this small:
4a33ea9eda8f34b05e69fe8838afc168.jpg


Just compare that to my first image of M3...
 
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mbrooksay;n2289397 said:
I hope youre not asking the Devs to create fake iron sights for these real world weapons like COD does just so the visibility of your target is easier.

i LOVE authentic iron sights.

So do you also love incorrect sight picture? The sights already are compromised, only in the wrong direction. The M14 has a much larger peep hole than real life, and it's still not correctly representative of the actual sight picture. Second, the M1 Garand in RS has a larger peep hole (by about 20x larger) and nobody complains because it works close to real life and it's only noticeable when you aren't sighted in.

1 to 1 exact representations of gun sights are still wrong if the sight picture suffers. We have two ways of solving the problem the current models create: 1) fixing the focal point to the front sight post, which the developers said is too hard, and 2) increase the size of the peeps, which has already been done on the M1 Garand, M14 and M16 (close range only). The current option of not doing anything is a mistake that will cost this company. Nobody cares if the 3d model is 100% 'correct' when the experience of aiming is 100% incorrect.
 
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'Nobody cares if the 3d model is 100% 'correct' when the experience of aiming is 100% incorrect.'

I agree completely. 90% of the time is going to be spent looking through the sights, not at them. At this stage there are some weapons like the M14 and Grease Gun that are just not appealing to use due to the restricted sights.
 
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I have a problem with the viewmodels adjustments. I was looking at the wave 5 videos and was excited how the pistols looked/felt while shooting, and now as I got to play, they're adjusted so they're right in your face, which makes shooting harder and it just looks worse. The experience is now this:

woman-leather-jacket-gun-point-pointing-35082067.jpg


Also the weapons don't scale with the fov setting, so anything but the default looks just funny.
 
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This is what the sight picture of an M14 looks like (ignore the obstructions of the scope rail at the sides, notice how wide & thin the aperture itself is when looking down sights as compared to how small the hole really is as seen on the last pic below):
2ziolxl.jpg

2ziocbm.jpg



We need some sort of animation to simulate this.
 
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Just random thought on the M3. So I forced myself to play with the thing tonight. Ya, its sights are wacko. Retracting the stock makes the sights totally not aligned. So that is worthless this moment IMO. the sight picture is garbage for sure. But ended up much more usable as I got use to it. It is hobbled with these sights but apart from that, its actually rather good. Right now .45 is hitting like 7.62 nato in this wave at close range so hmmm, ya fix the dang sights and I will use the thing more. But forget tracking targets remotely well as is with these sights. Most times I was guesstimating where to aim. Works well at in your face range as you can not miss. And its actually ok as is at longer range like 100 meters. Got a bunch of kills out there. but that everything in the middle range UGH. If they stand still to let me shoot them its ok if they give a minute to putter around with finding them in the sights.
 
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I agree with gameplay over autenticity. The VCs can use the PPSH and it has great clean iron-sight and if you play the sapper class you can have the PPSH with 2 pizza-magazines, as US you can have the grease gun, the iron-sight is useless, you can't see nothing, and you can't keep track of your target while aiming, i have similar problem with the M14, the ring is too thick and you lose your target. I think we need a compromise here, between autenticity and gameplay. One more thing, i don't really feel the superior of US firepower, i think this need rebalance, like, 30 rounds mags for the M16 would be a step forward, 4 pointman, and try to make those iron-sights more "clean" (grease gun and M14). As a pointman, i need to be in front of my team to disarm and scout for traps, but i can choose between the grease gun or the shotgun m37, and i lose all the mid-range engagements, so i can't be in the first line of my team to do my job.
 
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There's going to be two contrary forces here; Gameplay vs 'Realism'.

I just wanted to add in that you should focus on gameplay when it comes to the gunsights. Remember that this forum community will invariably be an echo chamber. Many of the forum members are going to heavily support 'realistic gunsights' at the cost of playability. Developers, please think of gameplay. Think of how this will affect the game when it's introduced to the public (the forum population is likely only going to be a small percentage of your sales). If the sights look realistic but players can not aim or shoot the weapon, then this will heavily affect gameplay. It might make players avoid a team entirely.

For example, if we look at the Type 100 from Rising Storm 1, the sights for the upgraded weapon made it unusable. What happened as a result? Squad leaders would either use the un-upgraded Type 100 or they would use completely different weapons. The Type 99 sights were somewhat hard to use, what did people do? They used the inferior Type 38.

Already the gameplay is not realistic. People don't rush headlong into the action in real life. Engagements occur at much further distances in real life. Because we are dealing with a *game* here and not *gun rendering software*, please focus on making the game playable, which means completely unrealistic gun sights. I mean to say, I play the game for the gameplay; for the realistic weapon damage, for the squads, action, etc. I don't play it because the guns look realistic. I really think most players do not care about this aspect.

Of course, we are in an internet forum, so people here are going to weigh heavily on the side of 'realistic gun sights'. Please do not forget your target audience though, the people who want to play a game with great gameplay.

BTW, I've been a RO player from when it was a UT2k3 mod, please don't tell me 'to go play COD'
 
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Because the Greaser was mentioned again.

We have only one choice (maybe 2 if you consider the folding stock a "solution"): do it like FH2 and Day of Infamy did.
Open up the sightpicture, so if you look down you have a "realistic" peep sight.
M3_sight.jpg


And since we are talking about the M3, I will point out again, just like in this thread, that the animation is wrong for the Grease Gun in RS2!

The reload animation should look like this:

And what I recently discovered, the M3 ingame already has the charging handle modeled, but it isn't used!
You can clearly see it on the right side of the gun when you fold the stock.
ss_f5ee9cb93e85f2aeb45307f05b71f290ca344747.jpg


I do not know what drove the animator, but this is pure laziness.

Greetings
 
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