Announcement

Collapse
1 of 2 < >

WIP Forum Upgrade

Please pardon our mess as we continue to iterate on the forum style, css and images. If you have any suggestions be sure to let us know in the off topic part of the forum!
2 of 2 < >

Forum Rules

CHANGES
  • Items changed, or highlighted for future attention, on 20 July 2013 are highlighted in yellow.
Global Rules
  • Forum moderators may or may not be Tripwire Interactive staff members, but either way, please respect them, as they are the authority of the forums. Speaking to them with intentional spite will not be tolerated and may result in the loss of your forum privileges.
  • Any decisions made by any member of staff or moderator are final and not subject to discussion. Doing so may result in a ban from the site. The owners of Tripwire Interactive Forums reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason, as well as to remove access to the forums for any individuals with or without warning for breaches of the rules.
  • If you have a complaint regarding another user, PM the appropriate moderators, or if you have an administrative issue, [RO]schneidzekk.
General Behaviour
  • Use the search function before posting. Chances are your question has already been answered.
  • Use a title that describes the content of your post. Don't use all caps or special characters to draw attention either in the title or the body of the post.
  • Up to 10 emoticons are allowed in a post
  • Political discussions are prohibited.
  • Flaming - We do not tolerate abusive, malicious, personal attacks. You will be banned if you persist in this behavior.
  • Trolls - Anyone deliberately antagonizing other forum users by posting 'flame bait' type messages is not welcome. You will be banned (possibly without warning depending on the severity of the issue) if you persist in this behavior.
  • Personal insults (directed at anyone) will result in a ban. If the behavior is not corrected, it will be made more permanent.
  • Constructive criticism is welcome. However keep in mind we (and other forums goers) may not agree with you. If you can't keep the conversation civil, you will be removed from the forums.
  • The use of hyperbole, one liners, and images as part of a forum debate is likely to get you infracted. You have many ways to participate and be a constructive part of this community, even when you disagree.
  • To make the highlighted bits above 100% clear to everyone, the following WILL NOT BE TOLERATED:
    1. Personal attacks, insults, antagonism of any forum-goers, moderators or Tripwire Interactive staff.
    2. Breaches of confidentiality and privacy of any sort.
    3. Any form of racism, bigotry or attacks on race, creed or color.
    4. Linking to posts on other forums related to ANY of the above, whether you are the originator or not, without exception.
  • There has been too much in the way of abhorrent personal behaviors in the past. These will cease. It doesn't matter who started it or who reacted to it - it will all result in moderator action. If you have to indulge your hatreds, for whatever reason, go do it elsewhere - and do not try and drag our forum-goers over to enjoy your hatreds.
  • We understand that people have strong feelings about our games, what we do for a living and how we respond (or don't) to comments on the forums. We all aren't going to agree about everything. So, BE CIVIL in your disagreements!
DO NOTs
  • DO NOT Transmit any message, information, data, text, software or graphic files, or other materials ("Content") that is unlawful (including illegal drug usage), harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, hateful or racially, ethnically, sexually or otherwise objectionable. This includes publicizing private information, such as individual's real names, IP addresses and anything else that might be used to identify them to the freakier members of the internet. This also means you may NOT publically share private communications (PM, email or anything else) without the original poster's permission.
  • DO NOT Post or transmit any Content that contains a virus, Trojan horse or other mischievous Content.
  • DO NOT Post or transmit any unsolicited advertising, promotional materials, "junk mail", "spam", "chain letters", "pyramid schemes" or any other form of solicitation.
  • DO NOT link to posts on any other forums, or any other form of media, that breaches our rules. It will be treated just the same as if you had posted it here.
  • DO NOT Double Post, cross Post or restart closed threads.
  • DO NOT Intentionally or unintentionally violate any applicable local, state, national or international law, rule or regulation.
  • DO NOT Upload or transmit any Content that infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary rights ("Rights") of any party.
  • DO NOT post cheats or exploits; THIS INCLUDES ALL/ANY REFERENCES TO HACKING, PIRATED SOFTWARE etc.
  • DO NOT complain about being banned from a server and DO NOT complain about other players on servers - that is between you and the admin, no need to get the community involved.
Username, Avatar and Signature Rules
  • Multiple registrations result in a ban.
  • No offensive user names
  • Avatars:
    Avatars are disabled.
  • All signatures should not exceed the following size limits, you can have both text and images
  • - For text signatures: 4 lines normal size, 8 lines small size and up to 100 chars per line. Font sizes above 2 are not allowed. (Blank lines count as lines.)
  • - For images in signatures: 1 image up to 400 pixels wide, 150 pixels tall and 100kb in size plus 2 lines normal size text and up to 100 chars per line
Netiquette: Written text has no inflection, and, as such, you should be careful how you write your messages as interpretation will vary from person to person. Please take advantage of the built-in emoticons to add such expression to your words. Please remember the golden rule: to treat other forum users the way you would like to be treated. Please use common courtesy, and enjoy using Red Orchestra's forums
Offensive material
The following is a list of some things that MAY be considered "offensive" by the moderators and the team. This is NOT an exclusive list and it does depend very much on context.

Crossing the line into "offensive" territory is likely to get you asked to change your name, sig or avatar or to withdraw/delete posts. This will be done politely by the moderators. If you refuse to comply further action WILL be taken once started, ultimately leading to banning from the forums.

A key point: please attempt to use your brains. What is mild humour to you may well be deeply offensive to others. While we have no intention of acting as politically-correct "thought police", we are on the lookout for those things that can cause offense and, in some cases, are actually still illegal in some jurisdictions.
  1. Names recalling notorious war criminals or personalities.
  2. Names recalling atrocities and war crimes in general, or units with particularly odious histories.
  3. Use of obscenities and expletives.
  4. Blatant racism, mysogynism or many other "ism"s.
  5. Use of symbolism and regalia recalling Nazism or Fascism; this does not include pics of soldiers who happen to have such symbols on their uniform, unless we feel this has been done to provoke. Please note that many Nazi symbols (including the Swastika) are still illegal in Germany and other countries and considered deeply offensive by many Europeans.
  6. Use of symbolism and regalia recalling Stalinism.
  7. On both the previous two, the moderators' views on the intention and impact of use of such symbols will be final - not yours. Please be understanding if you are advised to change something.
  8. In general, if a sig/avatar represents your allegiances in-game and is clearly "in part", it is likely to be fine; if the moderators feel you are trying to demonstrate unpalatable political allegiances, or to use it in an attempt to ridicule or provoke others you WILL be asked to change it. RO is NOT the place to make any extremist political statements of any kind.
Examples:
So people get the idea, some examples that would be considered offensive, numbered as above:
  1. "Hitler", "Beria"
  2. "NKVD Blocking Detachment", "Einsatzgruppen"
  3. This one should be pretty obvious...
  4. So should this - and it includes calling all Germans "Nazis" and all Soviets/Russians "Commies". It got boring 50 years ago, so stop it.
  5. Use of swastikas, fasces, SS-runes and so on for the Axis.
  6. There is actually very little overt symbolism from the Stalinist era; the hammer-and-sickle isn't offensive per se.
A simple rule-of-thumb: many Europeans find Nazi symbolism of any sort offensive; many Americans still find Soviet symbolism offensive. Engage your brain before using.




Final Note: this is NOT open to debate, so please do NOT start whining and moaning if a moderator asks you to change something. They will advise at first, giving reasons, then, if you take no notice, they will step up the pressure through to banning.
See more
See less

MP-41(r)

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • MP-41(r)

    (First, let me apologize if someone has suggested this before. I checked thread titles over the past six months, and I didn't see it, but it might have been suggested in an older thread.)

    A few mod maps lately have had Axis troops armed with Allied weapons. Pariser Platz, for example, had Volksturm infantry armed with Russian rifles, while another newer map has German anti-tank troops armed with Russian AT rifles.

    In light of this development, I'm surprised that nobody seems to have suggested adding the MP-41(r)--captured PPSh-41 SMG's converted to fire 9mm from 32-round MP-40 stick magazines.

    It seems to me that this would be a very easy weapon to model--just a PPSh-41 with magazine adaptor and stick magazine, firing 9mm rounds. And, when available, it would give Axis assault troopers and Squad Leaders a real, substantial choice when it comes to SMGs.

    I may be mistaken, but the differences between the MP-40 and the MP-41 seem to be merely cosmetic. I haven't noticed a difference in rate of fire or accuracy.

    The MP-41(r), by contrast, would have a higher rate of fire than either of the German designs. Its Axis users could enjoy some of that quick-firing goodness, without having to pick up an enemy SMG--but with the disadvantage of having to change magazines more often than their Allied counterparts with their high-capacity drums.

    And surely, the MP-41(r) was at least as widely available as the MP-41, which seems to have seen very limited service.
    [I]Damn[/I] this gun!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  • #2
    During the mod days the mp41 was the best smg but i still think that there is a minor difference now although the difference has been reduced.

    Hail and Kill

    Comment


    • #3
      ^Really? Well, in any case, the difference between the MP-40 and the MP-41(r) would be much greater--at least as great as the difference between the PPD-40 and the PPSh-41.
      [I]Damn[/I] this gun!

      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

      Comment


      • #4
        If you think about it why should there be a difference in accuracy or rate of fire? It is or was nearly the same gun. If you have the opinion that there should be a difference you also could make random code difference to potrait individual weapons because manufacturing quality is varies.
        Imo this would be pointless
        Imo the Mp41 is superior in hipshooting (less recoil) but that is my personal taste.

        Adding weapons in RO needs a lot of hard work by a team of people!

        You need a third person model
        a first person model
        an Iron Sight model
        textures for all these models
        animations for the weapon
        and the RO player moder
        weapon code

        Then you have to bug test the toy and you need a map where you can play with it

        And it doesn't make a difference if the models look similar
        Maybe I missed a step but you should have gotten the idea.
        Peace has cost you your strength! Victory has defeated you! - Bane

        Comment


        • #5
          And to add insult to injury (as Ketch already mentioned), if we really go there, it is possible that there is a chance to even some "insane" fire rate diffrences just between few models. While yes, they are all extreme examples, good example is the debate of MG42 fire rate. It is possible that it varied between like 900 - 1500 RPM based on invidual model. 1200 is just simple (and accepted) estimate that can be both correct and wrong, depending on the model itself.

          You never know what happens in the factories during the war. Original gear (or armanent) can be extremely ****ed up or have some other funny stuff around. Or have some variations you would never have seen coming in the first place.
          There was a signature here, but it's gone now.

          Comment


          • #6
            I don't understand the point to either of these posts.

            First: if the MP41 really was practically the same gun as the MP40--if the differences between the two make no difference to gameplay--then why include it all?

            It seems to me that the only reason to include a different weapon in the game is because it's DIFFERENT--because it has different capabilities, strengths, and weaknesses compared to already-existing weapons. The MP41 does not meet this requirement. The MP41(r) would.

            Second: if it really does take an enormous amount of work to code a new weapon, then why go to the trouble of coding a new weapon that's essentially indistinguishable from another? Because some players like its looks? Just the fact that Tripwire went to the trouble of including the MP41 in the game suggests that you're exaggerating the amount of work required.

            So I'm not convinced that adding the MP41(r) would be all that labour-intensive. It seems to me that it could be kitbashed together out of the code used for the PPSh41 and the MP40--much as the actual weapon was kitbashed together in reality.

            And far from being pointless, adding the Mp41(r) would offer German assault troopers a REAL choice between two very different submachineguns, with different capabilities, strengths and weaknesses. Instead of what they have at present: a choice between the MP40 and--well, the MP40 (with a kewl wooden stock).

            Having these kinds of choices enhances gameplay. Variety's the very spice of life, after all. And since TWI was willing to add the T-34(r) to the German armoury (on "Black Day July"), I see no reason not to add the MP41 (r), which might conceivably be used on several maps.
            [I]Damn[/I] this gun!

            [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

            Comment


            • #7
              This is an MP41(r) for the confused ones.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by D-Es-C-H View Post
                And since TWI was willing to add the T-34(r) to the German armoury (on "Black Day July"), I see no reason not to add the MP41 (r), which might conceivably be used on several maps.
                They didn't. Moz did. Additionally, all that was required for the T-34(r) was code and skin changes. An MP41(r) would require a new set of animations as modified models, as well as the coding and maybe sounds. Therefore, it is not as easy.

                Current Project: RAD ORCHESTRA 2: HOBOS OF STALINGRAD

                Comment


                • #9
                  Maybe you could get the PPSH as a german gun under another designation (and more easy, because it would work unmodded ):

                  "The Wehrmacht officially adopted the converted PPSh-41 as the MP41(r), unconverted PPSh-41s were designated MP717(r)."

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPSH

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by EvilHobo View Post
                    They didn't. Moz did. Additionally, all that was required for the T-34(r) was code and skin changes. An MP41(r) would require a new set of animations as modified models, as well as the coding and maybe sounds. Therefore, it is not as easy.
                    You wouldin't need new animations. You could just use MP40 animations I would think.
                    [URL="http://www.blackfootstudios.com/newsletter/BFS_Newsletter1_Sept07.pdf"][/URL]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      nope, then when you did a dry reload you'd have the hand pulling back on an invisible bolt, pressing in an invisible mag release button, then bringing the invisible bolt back forward. at the very least you'd need to modify the default PPSh anims to make it look right.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Exactly. Different model, different animation.

                        Current Project: RAD ORCHESTRA 2: HOBOS OF STALINGRAD

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Makabi View Post
                          nope, then when you did a dry reload you'd have the hand pulling back on an invisible bolt, pressing in an invisible mag release button, then bringing the invisible bolt back forward. at the very least you'd need to modify the default PPSh anims to make it look right.
                          Okay, so it wouldn't be quite as easy to include as the T-34(r). Shows what I know about programming.

                          But still--it seems to me that it wouldn't require quite as much effort as a completely new gun. Plus, you could use roughly the same animation to allow Russian PPSh's to load with a 35-shot stick magazine.

                          From what I've read, it became increasingly common, later in the war, to load the PPSh with a stick instead of a drum. Or to mix the two--say, one drum, and three sticks.

                          (This would also allow soldiers armed with a PPSh to harvest ammo for the PPS42, in a pinch. A rare occurrence, I'll admit, but not outside the realm of possibility.)

                          More importantly--and this gets back to my original point--the extra effort would be rewarded with extra value, on maps set between, say, the winter of 1941-42, and the introduction of the StG44.

                          During that period, the MP-41(r) would give German assault troopers an alternative to the MP40 (and MP41), without completely replacing either of them.

                          Simply allowing them to choose an MP717(r) (that is to say, a captured PPSh41 with drum) would not be as good, because (IMHO) the PPSh41 is the superior weapon. They would all choose the MP717(r)--the way they all choose the StG44, as soon as it becomes available: no assault trooper in his right mind picks an SMG over an assault rifle.

                          Given a meaningful choice between two very different weapons, German assault troopers would have to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of each, and choose the one that's right for them.

                          That would increase the fun. And isn't that why we're all here? For the fun?
                          [I]Damn[/I] this gun!

                          [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Why not just give German SMGers the choice of using the PPSh? While there were a lot converted to 9mm I'm sure German forces would have accumulated enough captured Russian ammo and weapons for this to be realistic, just call it the MP717(r).
                            [LEFT][URL="http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=25794"][I][B][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/craigus/RO-sig.png[/IMG][/B][/I][/URL]
                            [/LEFT]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Trendkill View Post
                              Why not just give German SMGers the choice of using the PPSh? While there were a lot converted to 9mm I'm sure German forces would have accumulated enough captured Russian ammo and weapons for this to be realistic, just call it the MP717(r).
                              Balance issue I guess.

                              You can already see people complaining about having bit too many assault classes (and they certainly have a point).

                              Now let's put over 40 player server with increased assault classes and everyone running around with PPSh. It will remotedly look like some random deathmatch. Go figure.
                              There was a signature here, but it's gone now.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X