Well, I think the reaction to the article is decent and it is probably good publicity overall.
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Everyone loves a good debate... PC Gamer Article
- Thread starter [TW]Wilsonam
- Start date
Logged in to laugh at your stupidity hahahahahahahaha Insurgency ahahhaahahahahah Insurgency 2 HAHAHAHAHAHAH
Thanks for making my morning.
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RO1's players had no reason to be jealous of Insurgency.
The devs of Insurgency 2 said it was going to be more noob-friendly, and Ins1 fans confirmed it already sux as hell.
RIP RO, RIP INS, who's next ?
The devs of Insurgency 2 said it was going to be more noob-friendly, and Ins1 fans confirmed it already sux as hell.
RIP RO, RIP INS, who's next ?
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last patch a lot of changes was made, example "more recoil after run, more sway", etc. I launch Insurgency mod because I thought my memory were hezy. It is, more or left, the same game in the core design, just like Ro2 compared to Ro1.
People loves to whine.
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Yep... That's pretty much what I said.
And I dont like whining at all. I wish those games could evolve the way I imagined it many years ago when I discovered those crazy franchises. Something went terribly wrong, and it gives me nothing like joy.
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meh BC1 and BC2 are spin off games for BF,so i dont cared if there were dumbed down,but BF3...was advertised as a
"true sequel to battlefield 2" and "PC is lead platform"
...all lies
we got a CoD/BF hybrid run n gun game that is even more noob friendly and retarded as BC2.
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Same here. I thought BC1/2 was a sort of prototype which was supposed to test the frostbite engine, and then Dice would come back to oldschool mechanics with BF3.
Well... It didnt happen.
Well... It didnt happen.
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meh BC1 and BC2 are spin off games for BF,so i dont cared if there were dumbed down,but BF3...was advertised as a
"true sequel to battlefield 2" and "PC is lead platform"
...all lies
Well to be fair BF2 had unlocks, progression, and achievements too; it just wasn't to the same extent as in it wasn't a prominent part of the game.
I would of been happier with BF3 if it didn't go down to the "1000000 DLC packs to raep your wallet" **** that EA does. I mean there are still large scale combined arms maps that harkens back to the days of BF2.
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![[TW]Ramm-Jaeger](/data/avatars/s/0/2.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
Ah, where do I begin. Well, I guess facts would be a good place to start:
1) There was no motivation on my or TWI's part on the timing of this article. It wasn't to drum up attention for Rising Storm or anything like that. The journalist that flew out to see Rising Storm was interviewing us about RS, and while the recorder was rolling he asked me some questions about what I thought about the state of FPS games. I gave him some candid responses, a lot of which were based around frustrations I had while working on Action mode. Think of it like two friends just chatting about what they think about games and game development. That was the atmosphere. What PC Gamer does with that chat after we have it, I have no control over. Now if they did this article now to get attention for Rising Storm, that is up to them.
2) Misconception - "RO2 has failed." Far from it. RO2 has sold and is still selling way better than RO1 did, has a consistent player base equivalent or higher than RO1 at its peak and is every bit as popular as the original now.
3) Misconception - "Tripwire tried to design RO2 to be more like COD for the initial launch." This one REALLY makes me chuckle because it couldn't be farther from the truth. I really wish some of you could have sat in the design meetings where we were designing RO2. Hell, before RO2 shipped I played maybe 30 minutes of COD multiplayer EVER. The core of RO2 was designed in late 2006/early 2007 before COD MW shipped with unlocks, etc. We came up with the unlock systems in our designs BEFORE we saw it in COD. We just thought it would be a cool thing to have in the game, a good way for us to introduce some of the cool variants of weapons used during the war. And the Honor system was something that I thought was cool about the previous game I worked on America's Army. I liked how it gave players a sense of progression and status. A way to say "check it out, I've been playing this game for a long time". RO2 multiplayer was the game that we, the devs of Tripwire, wanted to play. If we had the money at the time, RO1 would have been a lot like what RO2 was (minus the bugs and lack of polish when we shipped of course). RO2's features were Tripwire doing what the team had always done - making a game we wanted to play - period. We did have a goal of making it easier to get over the games learning curve, but not to be like COD, but rather just so players could get in and have fun by getting to the core of the RO experience, and keep playing the game.
4) Misconception - "Action mode is a useless failure because nobody plays it". The last time we did a free weekend for RO2 around Christmas we set up a lot of Action mode servers so that new players could get eased into the RO2 experience (rather then getting pissed off and leaving after an hour of getting head shotted from 100 meters by the elite RO fanbase). You know what, it worked! Of the people that tried the game during the free weekend, around 30% of them bought the game! And a LOT of people tried the game. Back in the Ostfront days, we'd be lucky to have 5% of people that tried the game buy it. They would try it, get turned off by the learning curve, and leave. So even if guys don't keep playing Action mode for long, many of them stick around and move on to Realism or Classic mode. It's a gateway. And that is a win for the whole community. Side note - I only started playing COD MP after we launched and started working on GOTY's Action mode to do comparative analysis. And yes Action mode was geared to appeal directly to COD style players (and as you can tell by the interview was a pretty frustrating experience for me).
5) Misconception - "Tripwire tried to please everybody and pleased nobody". Well this goes back to point #1 - we sold way more games, and have just as many players. So apparently we pleased SOMEBODY We've also openly admitted our faults in missing the mark on what the RO1 fans wanted with the original launch of RO2. But since then we've busted our butts to release and refine Classic mode to be what the hardcore faithful wanted. We also missed the mark at launch on making something that more casual players could enjoy, which is why we created Action mode.
6) Misconception - "Tripwire doesn't care about competitive play". We can do better at this, and I'll be the first to admit it. That is why we're putting so much effort into TWI Ladder and supporting its launch and changes to the game to support competitive play. TWI Ladder is launching VERY soon, and once again competitive RO players will have a home. We're sorry it's taken so long, all I can say is we're not a huge company, and we do our best.
7) Yes I barely read the RO2 forums any more. Frankly there are just too many people here that no matter what we do, good or bad just go super negative. So I let Yoshiro brave the waters most of the time and fill me in on what the pulse of the community is. It is a real de-motivator for the Tripwire devs, and frankly makes a lot of them want to go work on KF instead of RO. For me, we shipped a broken product, and the GOTY edition fixed that broken product. So aside from fixing bugs, everything we add to a game after we ship is a gift to the community. We don't make money off you guys when we add maps or additional content. We spend a ton of money doing it though. Then we give it away. For free. Then we get hated on because we don't give ENOUGH free stuff. Well let me tell you a little story:
Way back when we released RO: Ostfront we did a TON of free updates, with lots of maps, new vehicles, weapons, etc etc. And the community loved it. What the community didn't see was that behind the scenes Tripwire almost went bankrupt because of it. There were at least two times that I took out loans personally guaranteed by my house and everything I owned to pay the employees and keep the company afloat for a few more weeks. By the grace of God we kept afloat, but all those free updates nearly put Tripwire out of business multiple times. Yes that's right, some of that free content you got put me in danger of being homeless and closing the doors of the company, no joke.
Now I'm not telling you this because I want sympathy. Tripwire is rocking now, selling lots of games, and I get a decent paycheck because of it. I tell you this because I just hope that some of you realize just how much devs have to risk to give you free content, and that it really is a gift. And while we have a lot more money than we used to, we do have to be careful not to give away so much free stuff we go out of business (especially now that the company has 40 mouths to feed instead of the 5 we had when we shipped RO1). Every free update I have to motivate a group of developers to work on giving away free stuff. And to be blunt, they can either work on KF or RO2 free stuff. So show the RO2 devs some love, so it is easier for me to get them to make you free stuff
Finally let me conclude with this. Tripwire is growing, but we're still punching way above our weight. Every time we release a military shooter we're going up against studios 10-20 times our size (think of the The Netherlands going to war with Russia). We don't want sympathy for this either - we realize we're going to take some hard punches when we step into the rings with the heavyweights. Just maybe keep this in mind the next time you sit down to type a message on these forums. We do the best we can with the resources we have, and we're always striving to do better. I really believe RO2 has turned a corner. With TWI Ladder coming out, the community map pack official release around the corner, Rising Storm almost finished, it's about to be an awesome time to be an RO2 player. Keep the feedback here on the forums constructive, and we'll have have some awesome game experiences together!!!
P.S. Rising Storm is REALLY awesome
1) There was no motivation on my or TWI's part on the timing of this article. It wasn't to drum up attention for Rising Storm or anything like that. The journalist that flew out to see Rising Storm was interviewing us about RS, and while the recorder was rolling he asked me some questions about what I thought about the state of FPS games. I gave him some candid responses, a lot of which were based around frustrations I had while working on Action mode. Think of it like two friends just chatting about what they think about games and game development. That was the atmosphere. What PC Gamer does with that chat after we have it, I have no control over. Now if they did this article now to get attention for Rising Storm, that is up to them.
2) Misconception - "RO2 has failed." Far from it. RO2 has sold and is still selling way better than RO1 did, has a consistent player base equivalent or higher than RO1 at its peak and is every bit as popular as the original now.
3) Misconception - "Tripwire tried to design RO2 to be more like COD for the initial launch." This one REALLY makes me chuckle because it couldn't be farther from the truth. I really wish some of you could have sat in the design meetings where we were designing RO2. Hell, before RO2 shipped I played maybe 30 minutes of COD multiplayer EVER. The core of RO2 was designed in late 2006/early 2007 before COD MW shipped with unlocks, etc. We came up with the unlock systems in our designs BEFORE we saw it in COD. We just thought it would be a cool thing to have in the game, a good way for us to introduce some of the cool variants of weapons used during the war. And the Honor system was something that I thought was cool about the previous game I worked on America's Army. I liked how it gave players a sense of progression and status. A way to say "check it out, I've been playing this game for a long time". RO2 multiplayer was the game that we, the devs of Tripwire, wanted to play. If we had the money at the time, RO1 would have been a lot like what RO2 was (minus the bugs and lack of polish when we shipped of course). RO2's features were Tripwire doing what the team had always done - making a game we wanted to play - period. We did have a goal of making it easier to get over the games learning curve, but not to be like COD, but rather just so players could get in and have fun by getting to the core of the RO experience, and keep playing the game.
4) Misconception - "Action mode is a useless failure because nobody plays it". The last time we did a free weekend for RO2 around Christmas we set up a lot of Action mode servers so that new players could get eased into the RO2 experience (rather then getting pissed off and leaving after an hour of getting head shotted from 100 meters by the elite RO fanbase). You know what, it worked! Of the people that tried the game during the free weekend, around 30% of them bought the game! And a LOT of people tried the game. Back in the Ostfront days, we'd be lucky to have 5% of people that tried the game buy it. They would try it, get turned off by the learning curve, and leave. So even if guys don't keep playing Action mode for long, many of them stick around and move on to Realism or Classic mode. It's a gateway. And that is a win for the whole community. Side note - I only started playing COD MP after we launched and started working on GOTY's Action mode to do comparative analysis. And yes Action mode was geared to appeal directly to COD style players (and as you can tell by the interview was a pretty frustrating experience for me).
5) Misconception - "Tripwire tried to please everybody and pleased nobody". Well this goes back to point #1 - we sold way more games, and have just as many players. So apparently we pleased SOMEBODY
We've also openly admitted our faults in missing the mark on what the RO1 fans wanted with the original launch of RO2. But since then we've busted our butts to release and refine Classic mode to be what the hardcore faithful wanted. We also missed the mark at launch on making something that more casual players could enjoy, which is why we created Action mode.6) Misconception - "Tripwire doesn't care about competitive play". We can do better at this, and I'll be the first to admit it. That is why we're putting so much effort into TWI Ladder and supporting its launch and changes to the game to support competitive play. TWI Ladder is launching VERY soon, and once again competitive RO players will have a home. We're sorry it's taken so long, all I can say is we're not a huge company, and we do our best.
7) Yes I barely read the RO2 forums any more. Frankly there are just too many people here that no matter what we do, good or bad just go super negative. So I let Yoshiro brave the waters most of the time and fill me in on what the pulse of the community is. It is a real de-motivator for the Tripwire devs, and frankly makes a lot of them want to go work on KF instead of RO. For me, we shipped a broken product, and the GOTY edition fixed that broken product. So aside from fixing bugs, everything we add to a game after we ship is a gift to the community. We don't make money off you guys when we add maps or additional content. We spend a ton of money doing it though. Then we give it away. For free. Then we get hated on because we don't give ENOUGH free stuff. Well let me tell you a little story:
Way back when we released RO: Ostfront we did a TON of free updates, with lots of maps, new vehicles, weapons, etc etc. And the community loved it. What the community didn't see was that behind the scenes Tripwire almost went bankrupt because of it. There were at least two times that I took out loans personally guaranteed by my house and everything I owned to pay the employees and keep the company afloat for a few more weeks. By the grace of God we kept afloat, but all those free updates nearly put Tripwire out of business multiple times. Yes that's right, some of that free content you got put me in danger of being homeless and closing the doors of the company, no joke.
Now I'm not telling you this because I want sympathy. Tripwire is rocking now, selling lots of games, and I get a decent paycheck because of it. I tell you this because I just hope that some of you realize just how much devs have to risk to give you free content, and that it really is a gift. And while we have a lot more money than we used to, we do have to be careful not to give away so much free stuff we go out of business (especially now that the company has 40 mouths to feed instead of the 5 we had when we shipped RO1). Every free update I have to motivate a group of developers to work on giving away free stuff. And to be blunt, they can either work on KF or RO2 free stuff. So show the RO2 devs some love, so it is easier for me to get them to make you free stuff
Finally let me conclude with this. Tripwire is growing, but we're still punching way above our weight. Every time we release a military shooter we're going up against studios 10-20 times our size (think of the The Netherlands going to war with Russia). We don't want sympathy for this either - we realize we're going to take some hard punches when we step into the rings with the heavyweights. Just maybe keep this in mind the next time you sit down to type a message on these forums. We do the best we can with the resources we have, and we're always striving to do better. I really believe RO2 has turned a corner. With TWI Ladder coming out, the community map pack official release around the corner, Rising Storm almost finished, it's about to be an awesome time to be an RO2 player. Keep the feedback here on the forums constructive, and we'll have have some awesome game experiences together!!!
P.S. Rising Storm is REALLY awesome
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I just wonder how many of the RO2 sales were overhyped preorders during the beta and launch week, and how many were after the hype died and people discovered RO2 as what it is. I made at least 9 sales for you by hyping my RO1 friends and NOT ONE played RO after launch.
Rising Storm will be a big test for you guys because most of the community is already burned. You don't have the hype factor anymore.
I'd say bury RO for good and go mainstream with KF. It seems it's what you guys want to do anyway, try to go head to head with the "big guys" rather than making great games.
Rising Storm will be a big test for you guys because most of the community is already burned. You don't have the hype factor anymore.
I'd say bury RO for good and go mainstream with KF. It seems it's what you guys want to do anyway, try to go head to head with the "big guys" rather than making great games.
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Actually, BF3 was even more diluted than previous titles. According to the community, there seems to have been a flood of diluter's trying to ruin the Battlefield formula even more.
Here's some examples of threads with great titles such as:
''Ban all CoD players''
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654348212912908/[/URL]
''How CoD players ruins BF''
[url]http://www.scribd.com/doc/92042367/How-CoD-Players-Ruined-the-Battlefield-Franchise-by-DrZoidberg1000[/URL]
And as a sidenote, I understand BF players. I wont call them elitist. Its nothing elitist about wanting to preserve a game you like to play when the game you play is one of a few.
The diluters want to take Battlefield away.
It is almost like games nowdays requires some sort of DiluteEye...
[url]http://www.hupitgaming.com/forum/15-battlefieldmedal-of-honor/378513-battlefield-community-qkeep-cod-fanboys-off-our-gameq[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654625267860590/[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.medalofhonor.com/mohw/forum/threadview/2832654624715014635/[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654348098676760/[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654348043417760/[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654625451956845/[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654625217434325/[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654490178705851/[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654348381227795/[/URL]
[url]http://raptr.com/profurian/news/50453fc28738843f49/i-dont-play-battlefield-3-for-one-reason-cod-players[/URL]-
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654489549467567/[/URL]
[url]http://www.hupitgaming.com/forum/15-battlefieldmedal-of-honor/378513-battlefield-community-qkeep-cod-fanboys-off-our-gameq[/URL]
[url]http://www.hupitgaming.com/forum/15-battlefieldmedal-of-honor/378513-battlefield-community-qkeep-cod-fanboys-off-our-gameq[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.medalofhonor.com/mohw/forum/threadview/2832654625217434325/[/URL]
[url]http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/621026-/61435717[/URL]
[url]http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/621026-/61435717[/URL]
Here's some examples of threads with great titles such as:
''Ban all CoD players''
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654348212912908/[/URL]
''How CoD players ruins BF''
[url]http://www.scribd.com/doc/92042367/How-CoD-Players-Ruined-the-Battlefield-Franchise-by-DrZoidberg1000[/URL]
And as a sidenote, I understand BF players. I wont call them elitist. Its nothing elitist about wanting to preserve a game you like to play when the game you play is one of a few.
The diluters want to take Battlefield away.
It is almost like games nowdays requires some sort of DiluteEye...
[url]http://www.hupitgaming.com/forum/15-battlefieldmedal-of-honor/378513-battlefield-community-qkeep-cod-fanboys-off-our-gameq[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654625267860590/[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.medalofhonor.com/mohw/forum/threadview/2832654624715014635/[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654348098676760/[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654348043417760/[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654625451956845/[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654625217434325/[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654490178705851/[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654348381227795/[/URL]
[url]http://raptr.com/profurian/news/50453fc28738843f49/i-dont-play-battlefield-3-for-one-reason-cod-players[/URL]-
[url]http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654489549467567/[/URL]
[url]http://www.hupitgaming.com/forum/15-battlefieldmedal-of-honor/378513-battlefield-community-qkeep-cod-fanboys-off-our-gameq[/URL]
[url]http://www.hupitgaming.com/forum/15-battlefieldmedal-of-honor/378513-battlefield-community-qkeep-cod-fanboys-off-our-gameq[/URL]
[url]http://battlelog.medalofhonor.com/mohw/forum/threadview/2832654625217434325/[/URL]
[url]http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/621026-/61435717[/URL]
[url]http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/621026-/61435717[/URL]
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Not sure what you believe to be stupid. The idea that ROOST fans wished they had more power in the development of RO2? The fact that the Ins2 devs actually listen to the Ins fans (of which I know is true as I've been a tester for a long time)?
Not sure which Ins fans you talk about, the Ins fans I talk to who can actually articulate their thoughts and argue why they think what they think only really complain about the map design.
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Good games and good sales can be mutually exclusive, believe it or not.
That being said I don't think good sales shouldn't be the only thing to aim for. And as far as I can tell from Ramm's post it wasn't, although he did expressly say he wanted the game to be more accessible it was based more on what he thought he would like to play as opposed to pump sales. . And that shouldn't of been an issue as long its done properly, but obviously it wasn't at least not for the people here.
Also I see no reason for so much personal offense and hate to recommend that TWI just forget trying to fix RO all together, especially coming from people who claim to be the true fans of RO.
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Just my 2 pence but years ago I was browsing the games in HMV and just happened to pick up RO1. The reason I bought it was because: it boasted itself as a realistic shooter, it was something different (Eastern Front) and most importantly it looked proud of what it was.
I love RO2 but I can't defend it blindly. It looked as though it was ashamed of being a niche shooter, the new modes bolted on to try to attract CoD players. I digress but who here doesn't remember being overjoyed when they managed to get their first kill in RO, personally it was from that point that I was hooked. Now with the Action mode it is just as flavourless as nearly all of the other shooters out there.
Classic mode (and to an extent Realism) have began to bring back what I loved from RO. I won't go into detail, if you are reading this you will have your personal favourite moments from the battlefield and they are something you would never be able to get from any other game.
With a bit of luck and open ears from TWI there should be no reason RO2 cannot be boasted as one of the best shooters on the market.
I love RO2 but I can't defend it blindly. It looked as though it was ashamed of being a niche shooter, the new modes bolted on to try to attract CoD players. I digress but who here doesn't remember being overjoyed when they managed to get their first kill in RO, personally it was from that point that I was hooked. Now with the Action mode it is just as flavourless as nearly all of the other shooters out there.
Classic mode (and to an extent Realism) have began to bring back what I loved from RO. I won't go into detail, if you are reading this you will have your personal favourite moments from the battlefield and they are something you would never be able to get from any other game.
With a bit of luck and open ears from TWI there should be no reason RO2 cannot be boasted as one of the best shooters on the market.
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The PC actually was the lead platform for a while but DICE decided to change it. Thats not a big surprise though
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