What we are up to - Refinements

[Golf33]

I am not quite sure I understand this sentence. Does that mean that you will keep the old system where there is an upper limit for limb-damage and that above that limit it will become impervious to damage?

I couldn't work it out at first either but I think I've got it now.

What is changing is how the player can take that damage. In relaxed mode: When a player has lost the health in a limb, if he bandages that health will be "refilled" so that the limb can once again take damage. In realistic mode: A player will always take damage when shot in the limb, however the amount of damage per shot on a limb will still be capped.

If I understand correctly (Yoshiro please correct me if not):

Relaxed mode:
Starting health 100 (100 left)
Get hit in upper arm -25 (75 left)
Get hit in upper arm again -0 (75 left)
Bandage +25 (100 left)
Get hit in upper arm again -25 (75 left)

Realistic mode:
Starting health 100 (100 left)
Get hit in upper arm -25 (75 left)
Get hit in upper arm -25 (50 left)
Get hit in upper arm again -25 (25 left)
Get hit in upper arm again -25 (0 left = dead)

 

[zeep]

Also kindly add:
- chat after games end. There's next to no time for "gg", "nice shot" etc when a round is over. This is pc dammit!
- slow walking / jogging speeds down a fraction. even if just to test.

 

[dazman76]

This all sounds pretty good to me Thanks for the update Yosh, and thanks to TWI for keeping the promise on more communication

All can be heard.
They can't possibly all be bugs!?

More likely it's the same bug happening multiple times There'll be a "sound engine" object in there somewhere that is the core of all sounds being played - just one bug and some random occurrence/set of conditions would be enough to cause this to happen, sometimes rather than every time.

I'm indifferent when it comes to native voices - I understand neither German or Russian, so that isn't immersive for me at all - it's just pointless really. I'll stick to the B-movie clich

 

[MarioBava]

I am not quite sure I understand this sentence. Does that mean that you will keep the old system where there is an upper limit for limb-damage and that above that limit it will become impervious to damage?

Yoshi, I think the damage model paragraph needs a summary for what it will mean in the game, a more concrete explanation.

The way I interpreted it is no single shot can do more damage to the whole pool of health than the limb has for a cap. However, that cap is only per shot, so the limb does not become impervious even if that cap reached. So, ignoring bleeding for a moment, say if a limb is capped at 25, any one shot to that limb can only reduce overall HP by 25 even if the round is capable of dealing more, but subsequent shots can also do up to 25. Shoot the limb four times with an MG or a rifle, for example, and he's dead.

That's what it looked like it meant to me.

 

[SiC-Disaster]

Nice list of changes, I'm eager to try them out.

 

[Proud_God]

In realistic mode: A player will always take damage when shot in the limb, however the amount of damage per shot on a limb will still be capped.

What I don't like about this is that it kind of ignores the bullet caliber. If for example your arm is capped at 20 damage per bullet, a pistol and rifle round will both deal 20 damage to an arm?

 

[dazman76]

That's what it looked like it meant to me.

That's how I read it too - although I did have to scan it twice as I wasn't sure after the first read

 

[MarioBava]

What is changing is how the player can take that damage. In relaxed mode: When a player has lost the health in a limb, if he bandages that health will be "refilled" so that the limb can once again take damage.

What I don't understand is this part. They way you've said it, it sounds like in relaxed mode, there will be an overall cap on limb damage deduction from the entire HP pool, but only if you don't bandage...Not bandaging potentially makes a limb invulnerable, while bandaging enables the limb to take more damage? Seems weird. Or are you talking about healing.

 

[Gudenrath]

Yoshi, I think the damage model paragraph needs a summary for what it will mean in the game, a more concrete explanation.

The way I interpreted it is no single shot can do more damage to the whole pool of health than the limb has for a cap. However, that cap is only per shot, so the limb does not become impervious even if that cap reached. So, ignoring bleeding for a moment, say if a limb is capped at 25, any one shot to that limb can only reduce overall HP by 25 even if the round is capable of dealing more, but subsequent shots can also do up to 25. Shoot the limb four times with an MG or a rifle, for example, and he's dead.

That's what it looked like it meant to me.

I very much hope so. The way it currently is where you get invincible limbs after receiving max damage on them is very very ridiculous.

 

[Yoshiro]

Yoshi, I think the damage model paragraph needs a summary for what it will mean in the game, a more concrete explanation.

The way I interpreted it is no single shot can do more damage to the whole pool of health than the limb has for a cap. However, that cap is only per shot, so the limb does not become impervious even if that cap reached. So, ignoring bleeding for a moment, say if a limb is capped at 25, any one shot to that limb can only reduce overall HP by 25 even if the round is capable of dealing more, but subsequent shots can also do up to 25. Shoot the limb four times with an MG or a rifle, for example, and he's dead.

That's what it looked like it meant to me.

That is correct in realism mode. In relaxed mode a limb can run out of health until the point where the player bandages at which point it will once again have a health pool.

 

[Yoshiro]

I couldn't work it out at first either but I think I've got it now.


If I understand correctly (Yoshiro please correct me if not):

Relaxed mode:
Starting health 100 (100 left)
Get hit in upper arm -25 (75 left)
Get hit in upper arm again -0 (75 left)
Bandage +25 (100 left)
Get hit in upper arm again -25 (75 left)

Realistic mode:
Starting health 100 (100 left)
Get hit in upper arm -25 (75 left)
Get hit in upper arm -25 (50 left)
Get hit in upper arm again -25 (25 left)
Get hit in upper arm again -25 (0 left = dead)

Where you are wrong is in the relaxed mode.

Relaxed will work like this:

Relaxed mode:
Starting health 100 (100 left)
Get hit in upper arm -25 (75 left)
Get hit in upper arm again -0 (75 left)
Bandage +0 overall health (75 left, but the limb can now once again take damage)
Get hit in upper arm again -25 (50 left)
Bandage +0 overall health (50 left, but the limb can now once again take damage)
Get hit in upper arm again -25 (25 left = almost dead)
Get shot in the hand - 25 health (0 health left = dead)[/QUOTE]

 

[Proud_God]

Where you are wrong is in the relaxed mode.

Relaxed will work like this:

Relaxed mode:
Starting health 100 (100 left)
Get hit in upper arm -25 (75 left)
Get hit in upper arm again -0 (75 left)
Bandage +0 overall health (75 left, but the limb can now once again take damage)
Get hit in upper arm again -25 (50 left)
Bandage +0 overall health (50 left, but the limb can now once again take damage)
Get hit in upper arm again -25 (25 left = almost dead)
Get shot in the hand - 25 health (0 health left = dead)

[/QUOTE]

Huh, so what you're saying is, in relaxed, bandaging makes you more vurnerable again? But I guess; you have no choice, or you will bleed to death. Also, lol @ the pop-up when checking your 'reputation'.

 

[Makhno [Anarchist]]

Native Voices is good news! ...and I really hope they will kill Lockdown completely in RO-Classic - I just hate being forced to run into an artillery barrage by a stupid clock.

 

[Abomolith]

To add on to Amerikaner and Kaizer Sosa, I would really appreciate some further changes to the bandage system. I'm all for increasing the time it takes to bandage a bullet wound, but I believe this should be complemented with more time to get to cover and bandage up. As it is, it can be rather difficult to get out of the line-of-sight and bandage, so increasing the bleed out time (which would not be unrealistic) would be appreciated.

Thanks for the updates on development.

 

[RedFlagWaver]

This damage system is laughably bad. Bleeding is nice, but the entire HP handling is **** from one end to the other.

How about giving damage to different limbs different effects upon the soldier? How about letting bandages stop bleeding, but not restore the limbs to full function?

It feels ridiculous to kill someone by shooting them in the foot repeatedly (before bleeding even takes its toll); even more so when bandaging somehow restores the ability to be killed by shots to that extremity.

 

[Cullis]

I have this suggestion to improve teamplay:

Make only light bleeding bandageable by player of one class. Make it take four times as long. Only once per player.
Success rate would be say... 66%.
If a team-mate bandages you, make it take only twice as long.

Randomly designate one member of each squad as medic. Or use some info on real medics of Heer and RA.

The medic would be able to bandage heavy wounds, and would be able to bandage 6 players before running out.
Success rate would be 80% for light and 50% for heavy wounds.

This should make people stay together more!


I also could write a python script for damage handling that would take into account anatomy, real ballistics and the like.
It would give outcomes of survival for various events. Hit into the head by a rifle bullet, hit into the head by a pistol bullet etc etc. (I'm a gun nut and the son of a medical doctor and an obsessive collector of useless information).

I could have it ready by monday evening.

You could then use it to give RO2 the best damage handling model in a computer game ever... (not sure here.. maybe ARMA has some really good modelling. Never played it)
I'll also be able to consult with real-world military and police officers on the accuracy and plausibility of such a model.

 

[Cwivey]

ArmA 2's damage model for people is fairly basic, legs, arms, chest and head just about sums it up (Maybe with hands and feet included, but who really aims for them at long distance?). There's no bleeding system (Talking about Vanilla ArmA 2) other than when incapacitated, even then it's more like a timer before you die and the time remains the same for any location hit. Being hit does effect the soliders performance however, any hits = reduced steadiness of weapon, arm hits considerably more so. Leg hits have the possibility of stopping the player from walking, forcing them to crawl the 500m to the objective. The ACE mod for it adds bleeding, knock-outs, combat innefective soldiers and lots more niggly little things. Feels much better, although at the cost of long load times and fifteen minute weapon chosing.

But I must say RO2's is a more in depth system, with lots of hit locations and bleeding variations for severity of wounds. Just needs some tweaking and it'd be fabulous. Not too sure I'd want to rely on a single class to help patch my guy up, but having any other team-mate be able to do it would be acceptable.

 

[Golf33]

Where you are wrong is in the relaxed mode.

Relaxed will work like this:

Relaxed mode:
Starting health 100 (100 left)
Get hit in upper arm -25 (75 left)
Get hit in upper arm again -0 (75 left)
Bandage +0 overall health (75 left, but the limb can now once again take damage)
Get hit in upper arm again -25 (50 left)
Bandage +0 overall health (50 left, but the limb can now once again take damage)
Get hit in upper arm again -25 (25 left = almost dead)
Get shot in the hand - 25 health (0 health left = dead)

[/QUOTE]

This being the case, why would I want to bandage in relaxed mode?

Also, what will bandaging do in realistic mode?

 

[Yoshiro]

This being the case, why would I want to bandage in relaxed mode?

Also, what will bandaging do in realistic mode?

When you take a shot, you also begin to have HP loss from bleeding unless you bandage. If you bleed out to 0 health, you end up in the slow death state.

 

[LordKhaine]

I think lockdown was/is the one of the greatest idea-implementation pair in the whole RO2.

I wasn't keen on lockdown when it came out, but to tell the truth it is growing on me. But still, some tweaking may well turn out for the best.

Anyway, good thread with many good ideas. Though to accompany an increase in bandage time I think bleed out rate should be slowed by the same degree. Bandaging should be something for after the brief shoot out. It shouldn't be forced on someone during the fight. It just looks comical to see two combatants stop their fighting to both bandage... while sitting 3 metres from one another. People should have adequate time to run and hide prior to spending a lengthy time bandaging if you ask me.