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Beta Map [Map] TE-Arad 2 (Beta3)

I am so upset reading that maps are being designed so bots are happy and accommodated for.

A part of me feels like it has died. Probably my liver.
The technical requirements to making bots function properly are also important to several player mechanics. Or would you prefer that objects can't be mantled or used in the cover system?
 
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I am so upset reading that maps are being designed so bots are happy and accommodated for.

A part of me feels like it has died. Probably my liver.

Having bots work properly in a map is a very important part of the level design process. It helps us test the map objectives and game flow. Without them, the whole process would be much longer.
 
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Isn't the answer then to drastically reduce the number of infantry roles and increase the number of tank roles, so that the bots have no choice but to take a tank role. (providing there is enough bots)
EG: in this screen there are 16 riflemen which could be reduced to 8
Squad leader could be reduced to 2
+add Tank Platoon commander
+add Tank Squad leader
Yes, you can "force" the bots into tank roles by limiting the options for them. The down swing is that limiting the AI role options makes it less available to human players too. Personally, I would not want to have a very capable AI entity manning a tank when a perfectly capable human should be using the tank instead. MP maps are meant to be played with humans not predictable AI.

Do not mix and match infantry and tank roles into the same squad as our squad system doesn't support it. It's either a vehicle squad or it's an infantry squad. As such, a tank squad leader will never be able to issue orders to a infantry squad. If that isn't an issue (tank squad leaders not being able to issue orders to infantry), then outstanding. A tank platoon commander can issue orders to all squad leaders, including infantry squad leaders, but cannot issue orders to fire teams. There cannot be more than one commander in the field: either a Infantry Commander or a Tank Platoon Commander.

As a note of opinion, unless you want a very, very, very tough commander with a mobile radio don't use Tank Platoon Commanders in combined arms but rather in tank only scenarios.
 
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Yes, you can "force" the bots into tank roles by limiting the options for them. The down swing is that limiting the AI role options makes it less available to human players too. Personally, I would not want to have a very capable AI entity manning a tank when a perfectly capable human should be using the tank instead. MP maps are meant to be played with humans not predictable AI.

Do not mix and match infantry and tank roles into the same squad as our squad system doesn't support it. It's either a vehicle squad or it's an infantry squad. As such, a tank squad leader will never be able to issue orders to a infantry squad. If that isn't an issue (tank squad leaders not being able to issue orders to infantry), then outstanding. A tank platoon commander can issue orders to all squad leaders, including infantry squad leaders, but cannot issue orders to fire teams. There cannot be more than one commander in the field: either a Infantry Commander or a Tank Platoon Commander.

As a note of opinion, unless you want a very, very, very tough commander with a mobile radio don't use Tank Platoon Commanders in combined arms but rather in tank only scenarios.

The whole idea behind this thinking was to get more bots into the tanks on this particular map, especially on servers with very few human players anyway,but where those few players would prefer to play as tankers,even if it was only against bot tankers, making up the numbers.
I prefer the tank only option myself,my suggestion was only to try and help Wolverine solve the problem he had of being unable to get the bots into the tank roles on low player count (under 64) servers.:IS2:
 
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The whole idea behind this thinking was to get more bots into the tanks on this particular map, especially on servers with very few human players anyway,but where those few players would prefer to play as tankers,even if it was only against bot tankers, making up the numbers.
I prefer the tank only option myself,my suggestion was only to try and help Wolverine solve the problem he had of being unable to get the bots into the tank roles on low player count (under 64) servers.:IS2:

ALA - Gumrak. ;)
 
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I understand what you are saying. I suppose in the 16p role structure could put all the infantry roles (8 player roles/team) and then the roles for 32/64p mode would be nothing but tanks. That doesn't fix the bots choosing the Tank roles as they would occupy the infantry roles first.
Even if that worked i think Wolverine still has a problem with this map regarding bot roles.
If i put 32 bots on a 32 slot server,all the bots take a rifleman role,they don't pick any other role eg: sl,engineer, anti tank,commander,mg, etc.
perhaps this is the way its supposed to be on Arad2,but i'm pretty sure that on the standard maps,bots fills more roles than just riflemen.

Screenie:
The first pic. below is Arad2, the second screen is Coldsteel.
 
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I understand what you are saying. I suppose in the 16p role structure could put all the infantry roles (8 player roles/team) and then the roles for 32/64p mode would be nothing but tanks. That doesn't fix the bots choosing the Tank roles as they would occupy the infantry roles first.

In Gumrak, on a 24 man server..... the bots work perfectly... regardless of the number of bots chosen. All in tanks and all performing as well as can be expected. Why not use the Gumrak files as a template?
 
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In Gumrak, on a 24 man server..... the bots work perfectly... regardless of the number of bots chosen. All in tanks and all performing as well as can be expected. Why not use the Gumrak files as a template?

Bots perform very well on Gumrak, they attack the cap zones that need to be attacked,what more can you ask?,human players don't even do that.
Yes they're predictable,but they will shoot back if you shoot at them,and if the server is set to "Hero" they don't miss very often.
 
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As I mentioned before, if it's a tank only map then naturally the bots will use them and use them well. Trying to force AI entities into a tank role in a combined arms situation will probably have detrimental side effects to the infantry roles.

Yes,but we need more tank only maps,either from TWI or the community mappers, a lot of the older Ostfront tankers just don't play the game because tank maps are limited to Gumrak.
I don't really worry about the infantry,(they're a load of whiners anyway, :rolleyes: ), because they've got a lot more map choices.
 
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Yes,but we need more tank only maps,either from TWI or the community mappers, a lot of the older Ostfront tankers just don't play the game because tank maps are limited to Gumrak.
I don't really worry about the infantry,(they're a load of whiners anyway, :rolleyes: ), because they've got a lot more map choices.

This ^ :)
 
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If you choose to make you map a tank only, be sure to update the Tank AI in the world properties from combined arms to tank only. The logic is streamlined for the tanks to behave more efficiently for tank only scenarios by not evaluating infantry specific checks.

WorldInfo -> MyMapInfo -> ROMapInfo -> Tank Behavior Tree

CCSBTTree'GripTankAI.CoreTrees.TankCombinedArms' --> CCSBTTree'GripTankAI.CoreTrees.Tank'
 
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Swag,

What ever tripwire is paying you, they should double, or triple it immediately!
You've been very very very helpful to us ( The modding community) So it's truly appreciated!


You and Xendance have helped us noobsters out tremendously. :D

Thank you!



ok back on topic!

Like i said before, there will be 2 versions of the map. combined-arms and tanks only. I'm currently putting the final touches to the "tanks only" version. Everything looks good in testing. i think its going to be fun map....blowing chit up! ;)


As far as the "combined-arms" I'm redoing the load-out so you have more than just riflemen spawn.


should definitely have the tank version up this weekend.


once again thx for all the feedback. please keep them coming!
 
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