Tactics Guide For Effective Team Work
- Thread starter danh
- Start date
i found that talking alot as SL on the server helps dragging your squaddies along. Especialy notify them where they will spawn and if close to the enemy where the first fire will come from. helps alot 
Upvote
0
Quite true. I got the Red Orchestra Series in the recent "Humble Bundle" as my brothers played it. Now we're home for the holidays we get together in one room and talk to each other as a squad, which improves the fun no end. I'm used to playing Flashpoint, so that helps with the 'slow down' mentality.
On occasion, if using "team chat" a lot, people get the gist and start calling artillery, spotting, perhaps working in ad hoc teams, but rarely does my SL ever say anything during a round, let alone give orders! Occasionally I play SL but when none of your squad mates talk to you or stay near you it's relatively pointless.
I mainly got these games because of the slower pace and bolt action rifles. I think there were more players who were used to CoD over the recent free weekend, so perhaps that'll tail off now.
A good idea to add "TP" to one's name. I shall do so. One of my most enjoyable games was when I talked to my SL in squad-chat (which he hadn't realised about) gave him some tips and had him take part, give orders, pull the squad together (or try to) and by the end of the round had gone from lone wolf spawn point to getting four or five of us working together. Far greater depth added to the game, and greater involvement and emotional engagement in the action.
On occasion, if using "team chat" a lot, people get the gist and start calling artillery, spotting, perhaps working in ad hoc teams, but rarely does my SL ever say anything during a round, let alone give orders! Occasionally I play SL but when none of your squad mates talk to you or stay near you it's relatively pointless.
I mainly got these games because of the slower pace and bolt action rifles. I think there were more players who were used to CoD over the recent free weekend, so perhaps that'll tail off now.
A good idea to add "TP" to one's name. I shall do so. One of my most enjoyable games was when I talked to my SL in squad-chat (which he hadn't realised about) gave him some tips and had him take part, give orders, pull the squad together (or try to) and by the end of the round had gone from lone wolf spawn point to getting four or five of us working together. Far greater depth added to the game, and greater involvement and emotional engagement in the action.
Upvote
0
A change I think might make using squads actually desirable would be to let the current TL choose squad makeup based on pre-designed formats, which would then allow for flexible and even historical choices in command based on the situation.
So basically before you join a game there is a basic interface for dividing up the sixty four players into whatever proportions you think could come in handy. For example, you might create a 20 man squad of just rifleman led by a SL, a 5 man rifle and machine gunner squad with a SL, and two assualt squads with SL's, etc.. You could even make it so that there could be more squads than squad leaders, but they lose the advantage of spawn on SL, and take orders directly from TL, or anything else. The crux of it though is that upon joining a server and becoming TL, you then have the option to choose one of the precomposed squad formats from the list of maybe 3-4 you have already designed.
Honestly, while it may allow for ahistorical solutions to arise in the command structure, I don't think that the way it is now is particularly historical given that both nations usually organized things either on a smaller or larger scale than the current squad system (but I don't really know.) What I do know, though, is that the current squad system for me at least carries little weight behind it, because on almost any map I feel it is maladjusted to the particular needs. I also don't think that some system of rearranging the squads should be too difficult to program (but in this I know even less.) The only reason for not implementing some leeway like this to me seems to be that the game doesn't handle enough players to warrant it, but then the squads are rather small anyways considering most squad-members immediately die off before they get into position to do any cool coordinated action like we maybe idealize.
Thoughts?
So basically before you join a game there is a basic interface for dividing up the sixty four players into whatever proportions you think could come in handy. For example, you might create a 20 man squad of just rifleman led by a SL, a 5 man rifle and machine gunner squad with a SL, and two assualt squads with SL's, etc.. You could even make it so that there could be more squads than squad leaders, but they lose the advantage of spawn on SL, and take orders directly from TL, or anything else. The crux of it though is that upon joining a server and becoming TL, you then have the option to choose one of the precomposed squad formats from the list of maybe 3-4 you have already designed.
Honestly, while it may allow for ahistorical solutions to arise in the command structure, I don't think that the way it is now is particularly historical given that both nations usually organized things either on a smaller or larger scale than the current squad system (but I don't really know.) What I do know, though, is that the current squad system for me at least carries little weight behind it, because on almost any map I feel it is maladjusted to the particular needs. I also don't think that some system of rearranging the squads should be too difficult to program (but in this I know even less.) The only reason for not implementing some leeway like this to me seems to be that the game doesn't handle enough players to warrant it, but then the squads are rather small anyways considering most squad-members immediately die off before they get into position to do any cool coordinated action like we maybe idealize.
Thoughts?
Upvote
0
I cried when I read this! Great job!
Join the group! http://steamcommunity.com/groups/RedOrchestra2TP
Upvote
0
Thanks danh! Another glimmer of hope last night - trounced by the Ruskies in about 6 minutes, having spent the round desperately trying to get some artillery or even recon, I went into the next round with little expectation of anything but being overrun.
However, something had clicked and my brother as SL was having 7 people following him, even to the extent of acceding to "go here" "cover there" commands. 4 rifles covering and popping up unexpectedly from the trenches, with them I got a large number of kills (which helps the ego) and successfully protected the assaults.
We cleared out Mamayev Kurgan while the Bolshies still had 140 reinforcements - such a turnaround! I don't think they knew what hit them. Even a teamkill while playing "sprint-through-the-bunker-to-bayonet-the-swines" when I rushed out unexpectedly didn't spoil the mood.
Not enough communication from squad members, but a start. First time on the server too.
However, something had clicked and my brother as SL was having 7 people following him, even to the extent of acceding to "go here" "cover there" commands. 4 rifles covering and popping up unexpectedly from the trenches, with them I got a large number of kills (which helps the ego) and successfully protected the assaults.
We cleared out Mamayev Kurgan while the Bolshies still had 140 reinforcements - such a turnaround! I don't think they knew what hit them. Even a teamkill while playing "sprint-through-the-bunker-to-bayonet-the-swines" when I rushed out unexpectedly didn't spoil the mood.
Not enough communication from squad members, but a start. First time on the server too.
Upvote
0
Yep. Often when I played, I would have players just follow me around as I lead them through the fight. I eventually added the ones that kept up with me to my friend list. I got them to use squad chat and we became a working unit. Of course more members joined over time because they liked the idea and we had a blast. I remember I recruited a few when they were level 20 to 30 and we played until they hit 70 to 80. Then real life happened and some disappeared and even I haven't found the time to play that much.
I am happy the spirit is still carried on! I hope to play with you some day!
Upvote
0
Great Post, Dahn
One major obstacle is again ppl not knowing which FT they are in (similar to before Twi added the Squad indicators). Prior to that, no one used Squad level tactics. Now at least sometimes squads will listen. If they simply added FT# next to each name under T screen wed be able to make some FT level progress, i bet.
One major obstacle is again ppl not knowing which FT they are in (similar to before Twi added the Squad indicators). Prior to that, no one used Squad level tactics. Now at least sometimes squads will listen. If they simply added FT# next to each name under T screen wed be able to make some FT level progress, i bet.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Yeah. Adding Fireteams would be a big step but before that, knowing which Squad you are in would be the first step. I often see players ask which squad they are in. I assume they don't use the tactical screen often which is another problem.
Upvote
0
Communications
Communications
I spend most of my time is ArmA 2 so tactics and effective teamplay are not a problem for me or my men. But it is a fact that when trying to apply the same techniques to public players, it will result in a failure almost every time.
The use of a certain set of rules and techniques is a working method if playing with a clan etc.
But when playing with random players, I normally use non-professional words and vocabulary. It's important to let my Squad members know what I want them to do .. but to do this I have to use simple and straight orders.
For example when my men do Urban Warfare (we use the techniques and orders taught in the Finnish Defense Forces) we use special words such as "Stack up, right corner" or "Slice the corner"
Easy and understandable English counterparts for these words would be something like: "Move to that corner on the right" and "Cover that direction for enemy contact."
I encourage the use of VOIP in the game. Of course if someone uses it to harass other people, then it sucks big time. Especially if you don't have time or don't know how to mute the troublemakers.
Communications are an important part of a cohesive and working combat unit.
Communications
I spend most of my time is ArmA 2 so tactics and effective teamplay are not a problem for me or my men. But it is a fact that when trying to apply the same techniques to public players, it will result in a failure almost every time.
The use of a certain set of rules and techniques is a working method if playing with a clan etc.
But when playing with random players, I normally use non-professional words and vocabulary. It's important to let my Squad members know what I want them to do .. but to do this I have to use simple and straight orders.
For example when my men do Urban Warfare (we use the techniques and orders taught in the Finnish Defense Forces) we use special words such as "Stack up, right corner" or "Slice the corner"
Easy and understandable English counterparts for these words would be something like: "Move to that corner on the right" and "Cover that direction for enemy contact."
I encourage the use of VOIP in the game. Of course if someone uses it to harass other people, then it sucks big time. Especially if you don't have time or don't know how to mute the troublemakers.
Communications are an important part of a cohesive and working combat unit.
Upvote
0
Playing more and more as SL recently, I have very ambiguous feelings. First, as I achieved quite a high honor level, newbies are tend to follow my lead, and try to do what I reasonably ask them to do, because they simply don't want to get slaughtered, and the directions of someone that knows the maps and the dynamics of platoon warfare, could improve their chances to survive more and to be more effective. These are the new players.
On the other hand, I see a handful of experienced players, that acting absolutley alone, don't even try to utilize the spawn on SL function, they are having their own ways, absolutley neglecting SLs, TLs, squadmates, teammates, but when they stuck, they are crying for smoke, recon and artillery. Sometimes they don't even know who they are asking.
However, the tactical screen sometimes doesn't even help. As a squad leader or squad member, I can see the rough hierarchy, who is my SL, who is the commander, who are in my squad. But I can't see on the tactical screen that who belongs to which fire team, in fact, I don't even know how the fire teams are filled, which is full, which one is (close to empty), that could help pretty much to the SL to know which FT would be able to perform certain actions. If I see that FT3 doesn't even have a single MG, I won't order them to overwatch or cover a critical area. When we are close together, I can see after their name which FT they are belonging to, but that should be indicated on tactical screen as well. The names are there, but it's not obvious where a FT ends and where another starts.
But most importantly, as others mentioned, it would be crucial to force the players to pick up a squad role, instead of picking a weapon. Many of the players obviously just want to spread the word (I mean the bullets) with an SMG, or basically anything except for the bolt action rifles. And that's wrong. Although the platoon consist mostly of riflemen, it doesn't mean that they have lower responsibility than the specialized units. They have to provide support for the attacks, flankings, helping out the MGs, being a rifleman is an important role. But most of the players don't want to be one, and if they have to, they don't care which squad and which platoon are they belonging to. They don't realize what they supposed to do, except for hunting for frags (which is of course quite useful, but they could play more useful if the deliver those kills in the right place, in the right time, supporting the FT mates).
Making players chose a squad and a squad role first instead of picking a weapon is essential. But the squad selection screen should also be fine tuned, I believe. I have something like this in mind:
The current squad selection screen is not really user friendly, it's not apparent enough, you don't see the whole structure in one screen. With this concept, there would be everyting visible and understandable at once. Players could see the competence level of the SLs, and the squad mates, and they would absolutley realize which FT they are joining, and according to that, how they should serve the cause of the FT, squad and platoon.
And instead of honoring the excellence in battle with offering them to take over a role of their choice, it would be maybe a good idea to let experienced and competent platoon commaders swap soldiers under his command. As he can see the entire structure of his platoon, if he realizes that the defending squad2 with an all rifleman lineup struggles with positioning, and the enemy decimates them a lot, the commander could place more experienced riflemen and an effective SL there. Although that has the potential to improve efficiency, nothing would stop the redirected player to swap weapon or simply exit the game, so consider this only as a rough thought.
On the other hand, I see a handful of experienced players, that acting absolutley alone, don't even try to utilize the spawn on SL function, they are having their own ways, absolutley neglecting SLs, TLs, squadmates, teammates, but when they stuck, they are crying for smoke, recon and artillery. Sometimes they don't even know who they are asking.
However, the tactical screen sometimes doesn't even help. As a squad leader or squad member, I can see the rough hierarchy, who is my SL, who is the commander, who are in my squad. But I can't see on the tactical screen that who belongs to which fire team, in fact, I don't even know how the fire teams are filled, which is full, which one is (close to empty), that could help pretty much to the SL to know which FT would be able to perform certain actions. If I see that FT3 doesn't even have a single MG, I won't order them to overwatch or cover a critical area. When we are close together, I can see after their name which FT they are belonging to, but that should be indicated on tactical screen as well. The names are there, but it's not obvious where a FT ends and where another starts.
But most importantly, as others mentioned, it would be crucial to force the players to pick up a squad role, instead of picking a weapon. Many of the players obviously just want to spread the word (I mean the bullets) with an SMG, or basically anything except for the bolt action rifles. And that's wrong. Although the platoon consist mostly of riflemen, it doesn't mean that they have lower responsibility than the specialized units. They have to provide support for the attacks, flankings, helping out the MGs, being a rifleman is an important role. But most of the players don't want to be one, and if they have to, they don't care which squad and which platoon are they belonging to. They don't realize what they supposed to do, except for hunting for frags (which is of course quite useful, but they could play more useful if the deliver those kills in the right place, in the right time, supporting the FT mates).
Making players chose a squad and a squad role first instead of picking a weapon is essential. But the squad selection screen should also be fine tuned, I believe. I have something like this in mind:
Spoiler!
The current squad selection screen is not really user friendly, it's not apparent enough, you don't see the whole structure in one screen. With this concept, there would be everyting visible and understandable at once. Players could see the competence level of the SLs, and the squad mates, and they would absolutley realize which FT they are joining, and according to that, how they should serve the cause of the FT, squad and platoon.
And instead of honoring the excellence in battle with offering them to take over a role of their choice, it would be maybe a good idea to let experienced and competent platoon commaders swap soldiers under his command. As he can see the entire structure of his platoon, if he realizes that the defending squad2 with an all rifleman lineup struggles with positioning, and the enemy decimates them a lot, the commander could place more experienced riflemen and an effective SL there. Although that has the potential to improve efficiency, nothing would stop the redirected player to swap weapon or simply exit the game, so consider this only as a rough thought.
Upvote
0
The way squads are implemented at the moment, the only good strategy imho is playing your role/weapon.
I have no idea who else is in my squad, let alone fireteam! Sometimes you spawn on your SL, which gives some indication... but most of the times even the SL doesn't have a clue what he's doing, so again we just run to the objective. And as soon as you move, you lost your squad mates and it's every man to himself again.
I'd love to see more teamplay, but I don't believe it's gonna happen with the current mechanics.
You would have to spawn together with your fireteam every time, and have clear indicators who's on your squad, and who's on your fireteam.
I have no idea who else is in my squad, let alone fireteam! Sometimes you spawn on your SL, which gives some indication... but most of the times even the SL doesn't have a clue what he's doing, so again we just run to the objective. And as soon as you move, you lost your squad mates and it's every man to himself again.
I'd love to see more teamplay, but I don't believe it's gonna happen with the current mechanics.
You would have to spawn together with your fireteam every time, and have clear indicators who's on your squad, and who's on your fireteam.
Upvote
0
![[SM]Fluttershy](/data/avatars/s/40/40879.jpg?1568638684){kind=avatar}
I would appreciate this immensely; Would help those that are trying to get into specific squads have a far easier time with selecting a class in time. In addition, the Squad System may need be to be slightly tweaked so that Squads 3, 4, 5, etc. are not completely empty. Nothing is stranger than having a full Squad 1, a near full Squad 2, and then finding zero people in Squads 3, 4 & 5 yet Squads 3, 4 & 5 still have Squad Leader positions open. Either spread the players out amongst all of the squads or just reduce the fire team total for squads by one so as to help fill squads 3 onwards.
Upvote
0
Brilliant thread this is.
The best gaming experience ever for me is when a competent TL orders are obeyed to folks best ability. There are some brilliant TL's out there whose orders and reasoning are assimilated by their minions. It is teamwork and tactics that win both round and campaign. However getting owned or raped by simply superior opponents does little to stop restbite of complete annihilation.
I think Jorma's suggestion is brilliant giving tactic aware players an opportunity to join up in one squad and CO's if other players teamwork is letting letting the side down or nobody has bothered to go TL. http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1193723&postcount=32
The best gaming experience ever for me is when a competent TL orders are obeyed to folks best ability. There are some brilliant TL's out there whose orders and reasoning are assimilated by their minions. It is teamwork and tactics that win both round and campaign. However getting owned or raped by simply superior opponents does little to stop restbite of complete annihilation.
I think Jorma's suggestion is brilliant giving tactic aware players an opportunity to join up in one squad and CO's if other players teamwork is letting letting the side down or nobody has bothered to go TL. http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1193723&postcount=32
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Cool, calm and efficient is how i would describe the best TL's i have played under. TL's should not have to persuade. Not following TL or SL orders is a kickable offense.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Cool, calm and efficient is how i would describe the best TL's i have played under. TL's should not have to persuade. Not following TL or SL orders is a kickable offense.
Hopefully we'll see more of that.
Upvote
0
Sadly this is dependent on server admining due to broken kick vote system...
Not only.
I see potential in the honor system. If you remember, after doing well on the battlefield the game sometimes offers you a chance to take a higher role - sniper, commander ANYTHING!
Even if it's occupied.
I don't know what happens to the guy who was there before, but it's an awesome feature that I love was brought in.
Upvote
0