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On Splitting The Community

I have come across people who bought arma a great simulator like arma, or even an action shooter like CoD, and then they get dissapointed because ''CoD is too unrealistic...'' and ''arma is too to inaccessible and boring''.

#1 - This isn't the CoD or Arma forums, nor is it CoD or Arma anybody is talking about, so why do you continually bring up CoD, or more specifically, Arma all the damn time? I don't give two craps what they do or don't do in Arma.

These people then make demands. They demand that a game like arma arma must become more user friendly and mainstream. These equals pest, a really dirty bunch of people that should be ignored.

#2 - So Pot meets Kettle, huh? RO2 has been released, TW even pandered to your demands & other's so that you got a game mode closer to what you want, and you keep making demands, you demand that Classic should take over all other game modes, you demand that the new players shouldn't be listened to, you demand that all those who have been supporting TW and RO2 thus far should all have to suffer in playing a game mode you think we all should play.

So does that mean you're a dirty person who should be ignored?

After all, you fit the same description you posted above about people in the minority demanding changes to a game to suit something that you prefer.

When you're demanding changes for a gaming genre that is on its last legs, e.i the tactical shooter/simulation genre, that's when you are really forcing people. Since hardcore games really doesn't taste well for most people, even those must become more mainstream-like and they get diluted.

Hence why game this genre barely exist.

So people can throw around words like ''elitism'' and ''selfishness'', but truth is this is just bullpoo. Just because you want a dying gaming genre (or a game itself) to stay true to its roots, just because you want to keep it alive, does not make you to a elitist prick, or some sort of definition of ego simply because you're a minority.

When you ignore what the majority of the community wants, even when the developers try to meet you halfway by making a game mode that closer suits what you want isn't good enough for you, and when you have no regard for the other game modes others enjoy and no regard for anybody else but yourself because you think you know better than everybody else.... it sure sounds like elitism & selfishness to me.

Its like saying a ethic minority is selfish because they want to exist. Just because the majority want something does not mean its the correct decision.

Money talks and those giving their money to a private business providing a product make the correct decision.

And if you want to think of yourself as an ethnic minority trying to continue to exist, then think about it this way:

You and your ethnic minority rent out a hall for a period of time to hold your meetings and prayers or whatever..... then when your contract/lease is up, the people you're renting from decide that they want to rent to someone else instead.

You don't own the hall, you have no say what they decide to do, and they have every right to toss you and your group out on yer butt to bring in another group.

In the same breath, you don't own Red Orchestra, you never did.... nobody but TWI does. You purchased a single license to use one version of the game (out of four available versions of that game) and now you think you're in a better position to dictate how the game should continue to be developed, regardless of what anybody else says.

Sorry, just because you played Red Orchestra Ostfront, that doesn't make you any more of an expert on the game, nor does it magically give you 51% ownership of the game to dictate to the rest of us how it should be developed simply because you liked Ostfront more than any of the other three RO games.

Unfortunately, its always the minority who gets kicked on.

At least you finally admitted you're part of the minority..... after the fact when TWI created the Classic game mode due to you and a few others claiming you were part of the majority.

Face the truth and realize that there is no other game like neither RO or ArmA out there.

Red Orchestra is not Arma and Arma is not Red Orchestra, anymore than BF3 is TF2.

Just because I like RO, that doesn't automatically mean I give a damn about Arma, or wish to even try it. As far as I'm concerned, they're two totally different games.

If it gets diluted, or even 'removed', then nothing exist for the minority that like these games, while it still exist hundreds of games that appeal to the masses.

So really, who is selfish?

You for wanting to remove everything everybody else enjoys and to force everybody else to play what you think they should play.

You already have the available option to play Classic in RO2 just as everybody else has the available option to play Action, Realism, CD, TE or FF...... and I'd rather have all these available options to suit each person's tastes (including your's) than to have all these options removed so everybody is forced to play only one game type, which is what you have been continually suggesting & demanding.

And if that was ever going to be an option by the Devs, then it's more logical to remove Action & Classic and force everybody to play Realism since that was how RO2 was originally released as.

The gamer who only got one game to play and want to keep it, or the bunch who got hundreds of games to play but want even more?

All those selfish epeople can just leave the board.

Then you can lead the pack and leave first...... set an example for the rest of us.

They've got nothing to do here, nothing constructive or positive to deliver, only a dilution of another great game. There are literally hundreds of games out there for them and they know where to look. By looking at the history, this bunch of selfish, dirty fishes have ruined so many games.

Regarding Classic it should never have been a mode. It should have been the game. While I admitt that not everything in Classic is solid its still a far better game in terms of tactical, semi-realistic shooters compared to vanilla. And thats what matters.

That's what matters to you.... and Classic being better than Realism is also your opinion, not fact.

More over, I don't really know what I expected from classic. A bold new direction in the tactical shooter genre because of a single mode? Classic is a Mode, not a game. OST was a game, not only a Mode. It does not, unfortunately, feel that solid, and maybe that's where the amount of players comes in. The game was from scratch designed for ''Realism'' Mode.

Whenever it was waste of time does not matter in my opinion. All modes where a waste of time.

Your posts are a waste of time.

The whole accessibility/dumbing down ''project'' was a waste of time (and huge potential which I know TWI have) and the game ended up almost like operation flashpoint: red river; trying to create a genre called ''everything'' which ultimately makes you aiming at an audience that does not exist.

If RO ever dies, I really hope that the game will die with dignity.

Well you're not helping with that dignity.

Added:

I thought the whole Classic Mode project was a waste of time from the start, but I got over it and moved on..... but in regards to you asking who's more selfish, I'll always say that the person who wants to remove what others (or worse, everybody else's) preferences and options to suit the minority's preferences (or perhaps just your preferences) are the selfish ones.

I get that you're trying to defend the "Tactical Shooter / Combat Simulator" genre of video games and that you don't like the idea that there aren't many games out there that suit your "Tactical Simulator" tastes... but to my knowledge, Red Orchestra was never designed, nor meant to be a Combat Simulator, nor a 100% Realistic Tactical Shooter.

RO has used many elements that represent "Realism" in a video game, but since Realism in a Video Game is subjective, those elements are continually changing. They changed a lot in the mod days, they changed some more while in RO1 and they changed yet again in RO2.

TW has already mentioned that they expanded the variety in RO2 in order to target a wider audience, and while you think that's a bad thing, they're a business and in order to remain in business, they need money, they need players.

While RO1 did alright in its time, for all the work that was put into RO1 over the years, the overall player count was dismal and didn't gain a lot of attention or retain a lot of players (myself included) While the Mod gained a pretty damn good following.... though being a mod for Unreal Tournament 2004 and piggy backing on Epic's blockbuster didn't hurt. But ROCA had a different feel to it than RO1 had. It was faster, the combat was more concentrated, the weapons were easier to handle/control, the tanks operated simply, yet effectively..... all of which was changed in RO1.

If they stayed the course and continued to keep the game slow, clumsy & difficult for new players to get into (RO1).... you may have been happy along with a few others, but TW would be out of business, because you and a couple of other die-hard "Tactical-Realism-Combat-Simulator" junkies wouldn't be able to scrounge up enough money to keep them afloat.

Having multiple game modes for players to play is very wise to allow for a wider variety of players to have something they enjoy, including yourself.

You demanding or even putting out the suggestion that RO2 should be only Classic mode and nothing else, forcing everybody else to play what you like or leave, is not only selfish on your part towards the rest of the community, but it's selfish towards Tripwire in that you expect them to run their business into the ground just to please you and a select minority.

You have Classic Mode.... you can even run your own server with the settings you prefer.... you can even get off your butt and make your own modification of RO2 to be something more to your liking....... but there is no justification whatsoever for your idea of trashing everything out of RO2 and making it as you demand/suggest at the expense of the rest of the community and at the expense of TWI.
 
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We can get along. But Cpt-Praxius is right about Cyper or anyone else who wants the game ''cured'' by the means of cutting it's arms and legs and routing out the disease. I also want RO2 to be ever improving, heck, I am the dude who wants Authentic Realism Mode! But Classic or Realism, not even Action have to dissapear.

My suggestion to this community and Tripwire: Try again! Try to achieve more unity, make a game mode that pleases everyone the best way possible... That would not be easy... but heck... Who dares Wins
 
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I think at this point it would take a new game to get things right and bring the community back together. And possibly even a new name to reset their reputation with the more disgruntled of us. :(

The problem is, with all the technology and games that come out 99% of them are utter crap if what you want is a historical shooter.

So, without RO...there isn't much, unless the more disgruntled of us can begin getting the skills necessary to produce games ourselves.

I think there is still hope with Ro2 though, personally. I think a realism mod ala Battlefield 2 Project Reality could totally spark interest in this game, or perhaps if the Devs take up the Authentic Realism proposal.
 
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