Firstly, let me just say that I love tanking just as much as I hate the bugs. I've got the weak spots figured out, the interiors are beautiful, the armor system is far more complex than RO1's ever was... I also greatly appreciate the work Wilsonam put into the calculations (Rant on tanks, armor, etc...), even occasionally in his off time.
Now, don't get me wrong--I'm not one of those who claim that the Panzer IV is invincible. It is more than possible to kill a Panzer IV. From the side especially, they are quite weak. From the front, it's far more difficult, but the hull hitzones can be hit.
Anyway, to the point. I've been trying to get these questions answered for some time, bringing them up during Scorched Earth casts, here on the forums, and in-game (politely, I hope) with the devs:
Are penetrations supposed to do a little more... damage? Once, I could only see the Panzer IV's turret cupola (50mm armor), and began shooting at it, getting repeated penetrations. Didn't kill the commander, who I presume was sitting up there on his chair. Penetrations on my own tank, be it a PIV or T34, sometimes completely fail to injure anyone or damage anything. In his post, Wilsonam said that spalling was modeled. If so, perhaps it's not working completely properly?
T34's front armor plates might need to be looked at if a PTRS can "damage" the T34's mantlet, which according to Wilsonam is 50mm thick. In a head-to-head fight against the PIV, I often had my front glacis plate damaged and subsequently completely "destroyed" by the next round. See picture below, taken on Arad2, where my front armor is damaged--that occured with the first hit, allowing the second to kill my hull gunner and engine. The one below took place on Gumrak in vanilla RO2, playing against bots. Driver dead. Hull gunner dead. Front armor completely destroyed, engine damaged, right brake destroyed.
The Panzer IV's turret is unusually durable considering the fact that the front is just 50mm of cast armor and the sides are just 30mm thick--deflections are common even firing across Fallen Fighters (150-250m). See below-this was taken right before pressing the trigger. The shot deflected:
I also played as a T34 commander in the beta today on Fallen Fighters. Some interesting things happened.
See picture above. Here, my loader was killed along with the rest of my crew, and my surviving commander couldn't be bothered to move about a foot, grab a shell off the rack, and shove it into the breech. I don't see why a tank without a loader couldn't reload the main gun, obviously at a slower pace. This isn't a bug, but it is a suggestion--when the loader is killed, allowing reloading to still be possible would be excellent.
Third picture. Was this me getting hit by a Panzer IV? Unfortunately not. My turret front armor plate was destroyed... by a PTRS in German hands. AND my commander was killed.
Fourth picture. Seconds after I fell back to avoid getting blown up by said German anti-tank gunner in the third picture, he put another round through my turret...
...and destroyed my main gun.
I'm assuming this is a bug? I mean, the PTRS couldn't possibly have been intended to penetrate the T34's turret, killing the commander, wrecking the front turret mantlet, and somehow disabling the main gun? The PTRS/Pzb stats seem... a little buggy.
Now, just to reiterate, I really do appreciate the hard work that's been put into the armor system. It's a complicated task with tons of variables, and its inevitable that something doesn't work quite right here and there, but the hard work shows, and all this criticism is intended to be as constructive as possible. Thanks for taking the time to listen!
Now, don't get me wrong--I'm not one of those who claim that the Panzer IV is invincible. It is more than possible to kill a Panzer IV. From the side especially, they are quite weak. From the front, it's far more difficult, but the hull hitzones can be hit.
Anyway, to the point. I've been trying to get these questions answered for some time, bringing them up during Scorched Earth casts, here on the forums, and in-game (politely, I hope) with the devs:
Are penetrations supposed to do a little more... damage? Once, I could only see the Panzer IV's turret cupola (50mm armor), and began shooting at it, getting repeated penetrations. Didn't kill the commander, who I presume was sitting up there on his chair. Penetrations on my own tank, be it a PIV or T34, sometimes completely fail to injure anyone or damage anything. In his post, Wilsonam said that spalling was modeled. If so, perhaps it's not working completely properly?
T34's front armor plates might need to be looked at if a PTRS can "damage" the T34's mantlet, which according to Wilsonam is 50mm thick. In a head-to-head fight against the PIV, I often had my front glacis plate damaged and subsequently completely "destroyed" by the next round. See picture below, taken on Arad2, where my front armor is damaged--that occured with the first hit, allowing the second to kill my hull gunner and engine. The one below took place on Gumrak in vanilla RO2, playing against bots. Driver dead. Hull gunner dead. Front armor completely destroyed, engine damaged, right brake destroyed.
The Panzer IV's turret is unusually durable considering the fact that the front is just 50mm of cast armor and the sides are just 30mm thick--deflections are common even firing across Fallen Fighters (150-250m). See below-this was taken right before pressing the trigger. The shot deflected:
I also played as a T34 commander in the beta today on Fallen Fighters. Some interesting things happened.
See picture above. Here, my loader was killed along with the rest of my crew, and my surviving commander couldn't be bothered to move about a foot, grab a shell off the rack, and shove it into the breech. I don't see why a tank without a loader couldn't reload the main gun, obviously at a slower pace. This isn't a bug, but it is a suggestion--when the loader is killed, allowing reloading to still be possible would be excellent.
Third picture. Was this me getting hit by a Panzer IV? Unfortunately not. My turret front armor plate was destroyed... by a PTRS in German hands. AND my commander was killed.
Fourth picture. Seconds after I fell back to avoid getting blown up by said German anti-tank gunner in the third picture, he put another round through my turret...
...and destroyed my main gun.
I'm assuming this is a bug? I mean, the PTRS couldn't possibly have been intended to penetrate the T34's turret, killing the commander, wrecking the front turret mantlet, and somehow disabling the main gun? The PTRS/Pzb stats seem... a little buggy.
Now, just to reiterate, I really do appreciate the hard work that's been put into the armor system. It's a complicated task with tons of variables, and its inevitable that something doesn't work quite right here and there, but the hard work shows, and all this criticism is intended to be as constructive as possible. Thanks for taking the time to listen!
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