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The rifles and balancing?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Kazune View Post
    Before you read on, I'm assuming that Rising Storm will be similar in that it will mainly focus on the early parts of the Pacific War, and I'm also only posting the following as "food for thought".
    Now, wasn't one of the reasons for the U.S. Marines not being issued M1 rifles the fact that most were being shipped out as part of "Europe First" when the U.S. entered the war? And thus many had no choice but to use the Springfield, or that M1917 Enfield until more M1s became available.

    It may be outside the timeline due to it being designed around 1944, however, as I understand it, the Japanese Type 4 rifle was meant to be based on the M1, but with modifications; the main modification being the use of two 5 round stripper clips rather than an en bloc clip, I imagine so they could share with other infantry and simplify production.

    For balance purposes, I could imagine it being somewhat like this.
    U.S. :
    Rifleman: Springfield/M1917 Enfield (both are Bolts)
    Assault: M1 Garand/M1 Carbine/"Chicago Typewriter"
    Support: M1917 Browning Machine Gun/BAR
    Commander: M1 Carbine/"Chicago Typewriter"
    Sniper: M1903A4 Springfield

    Japan:
    Rifleman: Arisaka Type 99
    Assault: Type II smg/Type 100 smg/Type 44 cavalry rifle
    Support: Type 11/Type 96 lmg
    Commander: Type 100 smg/Type 38 carbine
    Sniper: Arisaka Type 99

    A few side notes:
    1.) Japanese should be able to achieve a higher rate of fire with any Arisaka rifle over any other nation's bolt-action due to its design.
    2.) Japanese should be immediately issued bayonets for use.
    3.) The Type 100 smg and Type 96 lmg were able to mount bayonets.
    4.) As far as early war tanks goes, the Type 97 "Shinho To" Chi-Ha should prove to be on par (slightly inferior in armor) to the M1/2 Stuarts. Which was about all the Marines could field without getting heavily bogged down at some point.
    5.) For fun, Japanese commanders could be given the option to wield a sword as a secondary rather than the Nambu.

    Just my two cents. Food for thought~
    Thanks for your input but there is absolutely no way that we will have late-period marines, or any-period-whatever army using predominantly Springfields.

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    • #47
      [QUOTE=RtD>Kr

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Tovarish_Vassili View Post
        Yup, I'd love to see the good ol' Enfield back in action
        1917 Enfields didnt see much action in the Pacific with the Marines. There were more 1903 of 1910s and 20s vintage than Enfields.

        The Enfield was more of a WW1 rifle when enough 1903s couldnt be produced.
        The 1903 should only be supplemented by the 1903A3 on the 'Canal.



        Also...the 1903A4 wasnt a Marine variant. We used our own version up through Korea.



        MOHPA renderings of these rifles was spot on.




        Last edited by Marine Rifleman; 03-11-2012, 12:52 AM.

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        • #49
          Mmm loved that game... shame it does not work on win7 64bit.
          sigpic

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          • #50
            Haven't posted in a while, so I think I'll give my 2 cents since this is a pretty important topic.

            As many have said before, obvious moves to make to help balance this out are to give the Japanese a terrain advantage, and defensive advantage. Another possible solution is to give the Japanese a spawn point advantage, by either making their spawns closer to the objectives, or by making their spawn times faster, maybe a combination of both. You can explain this in a somewhat realistic way by saying that the Japanese knew the terrain better, and thus could organize assaults and reinforcements more efficiently. As a Japanese rifleman you might die a lot, but if you spawn closer to the front line, and wait less time to spawn, it helps keep that from being as bad. A problem with that idea though is that spawning closer to the action could lead to easier spawn camping, which might be remedied by clever map design (which I realize isn't easy at all).

            While I'm on spawning, another possibility is to increase the frequency that the commander can use the force respawn ability (if the team decides to keep that system from RO2 in place). Camouflage helps, although it's hard to make good camo that works naturally in game...
            Last edited by Moody; 03-11-2012, 04:32 PM.

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            • #51
              There are several maps we have atm which seem to heavily favour riflemen.

              Given the normal loadout of US Army (not marine) squads and the loadout of all Japanese forces, this is no bad thing.

              We just have to make sure the run'n'gun bunnies have something to do with their Thommies tho

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Nestor Makhno View Post
                There are several maps we have atm which seem to heavily favour riflemen.

                Given the normal loadout of US Army (not marine) squads and the loadout of all Japanese forces, this is no bad thing.

                We just have to make sure the run'n'gun bunnies have something to do with their Thommies tho
                that big? if it was only 100m you could just have the tommies spam at ridgelines and corners as makeshift mgs
                Even the Aliens know it:

                Genesis of IS2

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Frostedfire View Post
                  that big? if it was only 100m you could just have the tommies spam at ridgelines and corners as makeshift mgs
                  According to people that have fired both, the Thommie has a much greater kick than the PPSh so spamming is going to be a real wrestling match.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Nestor Makhno View Post
                    According to people that have fired both, the Thommie has a much greater kick than the PPSh so spamming is going to be a real wrestling match.
                    Ah, but the .45ACP is a much heavier calibre then the 7.62Tokerev and would probably be more stopping power against unarmoured targets at close ranges
                    Over 4 years and still can't get signatures to run!

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                    • #55
                      I like the idea of shortening the japanese respawntimes as it is a quite simple way of balancing sites, paying attention to the attitude of the japanese Soldiers and doesn't need to make any historical inaccuarate tweeks on the Weapons.
                      [IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_XpTYCMBISo/TswlQ46VFlI/AAAAAAAAEUs/GhpCO4X8T8U/s320/Sandor%2BClegane.png[/IMG]
                      If I see any of you dogs dying with an unused smoke grenade, I will rape his corpse!

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Nazarov View Post
                        To be historically accurate, Japanese had far inferior weapons than US. Their weapons were basically unchanged from WWI.
                        I would like the option to choose Springfield bolt rifle. I think the soliders could request springfield instead of M1.
                        Actually, in modern tests (sorry, dont have a link but it was on a show I watched on military channel comparing ww2 bolt actions) the Type 99 Arisaka was found to be one of the most durable and accurate rifles of it's time. And the Type 99 came into service in I think 1937, replacing the old Type 38, so it was a pretty new model, and a well made weapon (At least until the allied bombing campaigns). The Type 99 LMG was also widely produced, and from what I can tell (sorry, don't know as much about this weapon) was solidly built.

                        As for what others have said about the Japanese taking massive casualties compared to the allies, this was mainly due to suicides and Banzai charges, which of course will not be present in MP, rather than weapons. On Iwo Jima for instance, the Japanese General Kuribayashi strictly condemned Banzai charges and suicides, resulting in the only battle (in which the marine corps was involved) where American casulaties (26,000) exceeded Japanese (21,000). So it was entirely possible for the Japanese soldier to successfully combat and American one.

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                        • #57
                          I think its a bit of a myth that the japanese had inferior weapons. Not sure how this myth was created but I guess american propaganda (pre and post war) had a good part in it.
                          [CENTER][B]

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                          • #58
                            I think a problem people are just going to have to accept if they want accuracy is that Japanese squad-level firepower just sucked during the war. You could design the maps around these deficiencies to minimize them, but the reality is in a stand up fight an American squad can and just will put way more fire than an equivalent size Japanese squad.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by CaptHawkeye View Post
                              I think a problem people are just going to have to accept if they want accuracy is that Japanese squad-level firepower just sucked during the war. You could design the maps around these deficiencies to minimize them, but the reality is in a stand up fight an American squad can and just will put way more fire than an equivalent size Japanese squad.
                              So the Wehrmacht squad, which was built around k98-equiped riflemen, sucked too? The US was really the only nation in ww2 to widely adopt semi-automatics. This isn't really as big an advantage as it initially appears, imo, because though there is more firepower, aimed shots with a garand for example wouldn't be that much faster than that of a type 99 arisaka. From personal experience (playing hos haha) I prefer bolt-actions to semis anyway.

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                              • #60
                                what about the ability to fire the type 99 standing? it's a lighter round...should be more controllable. but recoil should be high

                                also, bayonette

                                also also man portable knee mortar
                                Last edited by gimpy117; 06-19-2012, 05:21 AM.

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