If you had seen the way he talks to people on his servers you would understand he couldn't care less who he offends.
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Sacrifice of Vehicle Interior Animations & Enter/Exit:
- Thread starter Cpt-Praxius
- Start date
If you had seen the way he talks to people on his servers you would understand he couldn't care less who he offends.
Do you? I gave Ollie good solid positive advice and you interpret that as offensive?? You are looking for an argument. I'll not be bothered by you any longer.
What goes on in our servers is our business... You don't like it go to another server. Or, put up your own server and run it the way you wish.
Cripes these guys want to control everything.
They can't stand that I support TWI and RO2. Too Bad!!
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Speaking of movies...........
How many "Tank Simulators" have you been in? Better yet, how many Tanks have you been in? Best leave that to Alan and Bovington. As for the tank interior and crew animations, its a decision TWI made that many of us enjoy. Must that too take a hike because "somebody doesn't like them" for one reason or another? Yes, its a video game with a magnanimous endeavor on the part of TWI to provide the very best game they could. Same as RO was. I have no problem with those lofty goals.
That's nice! So now the tanks must be half-assed to become doable in this lifetime? I don't think so. Consider this; if you pursue this task in a positive manner, you are more than likely to succeed. I am more than simply aware of the true enormity of the task before you. Maybe a reliance on common sense and less on emotion is needed. Perhaps if you used and reused the interior anims as needed, the grief of original creation could be minimized.[
You bet I support Custom Mappers and especially when they voice their frustrations. I'll do the same for Modelers and Animators anytime as long as they voice their frustrations about the task at hand and not at me. Coming at me will solve nothing and it will especially not intimidate me. I've been around the block 5 times and even put the street signs up.
As for the vehicles you mention, your best bet is to do it your way and not argue about it. Just do it your way. Minimize what you must and devote the best of your abilities where you think its needed most. You might even consider collaborating with TWI. You never know what they have on a shelf somewhere.
I never thought you were so discouraged.. turn that discouragement into determination to "get 'er done!" It works!
Stop, take a deep breath and understand that in most cases, thinking positive will accomplish far more than simply "pitching a b*tch". Remember, anything worthwhile accomplishing is never easy but the satisfaction and recognition for having done so is proportionately greater.
I'm with you brother in wanting RO2 to be the best it can be, not against you.
Sorry Mike, but I don't see any good advice in your last post. A single person cannot recreate something similar to the tanks we have. It's impossible. I won't lie to myself and try to convince me that I can do it, I can't. A lot of people are voting without even knowing the required amount of time to remotely come up with the tanks in RO2 or how much money TWI spent on the two tanks. And to answer your question, I have never been in a real tank and I've never been in a "tank simulator" (I was referring to a virtual tank simulator in the first place but I still fail to see how that is related to making vehicles in a video game.). Oh and one last thing, I'm not gonna do it my own way because I don't know how to code stuff in the Unreal Engine. Uscript is not something that you learn in two days and, I've never been so busy in my entire live. Heck, I even passed out this morning because of the lack of sleep/stress. I barely have the time to sleep so how am I suppose to learn how to implement a vehicle in UT3? If only the modding forums wouldn't be as dead....
Anyway, sorry if my last post was harsh or anything.
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I tried..... <sigh>
No, your post wasn't harsh. Just indicative of the attitudes in this forum. (Everyone knows more than TWI and can do it better than TWI)
I'd consider seeing a Doctor about the "passing out". That could easily be an early warning sign of something far more serious.
ps; If you don't know how to code in the unreal engine, then why try to tell TWI how and what to do with their code/game?
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Because no Coder is available in the modding forums. But anyway, I'm studying in 3d modeling and animation. I'm not saying that I can do things better than TWI did, because I'm just a student, but they can certainly help in making modding easier by limiting the FOV of the tank crew and by replacing some animations with a black screen. Anyone who has been making custom content that involves animation is going to tell you that animating/rigging/coding the interior of the RO2 tanks is something that is not easy to do and that is prolly not worth it for the amount of time that it requires and how it has barely any impact on the game.
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The same thing happened 4 years ago and the doctor said it was normal. There's a limit to what your body can take and I guess It couldn't handle it anymore, but I'll go see a doctor if it happens within the next month.
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Just a little tidbit of advice. Doctors often say everything is normal when they can't see anything wrong. This does not mean everything is normal and nothing is wrong.
I spent 8 years back and forth to various doctors and hospitals before being correctly diagnosed with sleep apnoea. I hadn't slept properly for 9 years by that time. Finally sleeping properly for the first time after being diagnosed was blissful to say the least
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Actually I have...his ego seems bigger than his head. But one of a kind I give him that.
Nevermind Mike.
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F
Field Marshal Rommel
Guest
Personally, Ive been inside over a dozen WW2 era Panzers. Last time I looked at RO II, the Panzer IVF2 interior is still incorrect. I get the feeling that Alan doesn't care too much about tanks or know the difference between a Panzer IV interior and fly excrement. For example, TW has had two WW2 games under its belt and in both games the Panzer IVF2's interiors are vastly different in RO I vs RO II and yet are both incorrect in the two games. So my feelings are 'if its incorrect/broken then fix it or get rid of it'.Cpt-Praxius said:
In RO I, the Panzer IVF2's interior looks like this and in RO II, the Panzer IVF2's interior looks like this.
Upon careful analysis, the RO I Panzer IVF2 interior is comprised of interior components of an early Ausfuhrung such as the Fahrersehklappe 30, (poorly modeled) which would be found on an Ausfuhrung B through D. Furthermore, under the Fahrersehklappe 30, there is a long horizontal control rod used in early Ausfuhrungs to remotely open the front cooling hatches over the brake units. This control rod was deleted on Ausfuhrung E late through J as the brakes were provided with armored cooling vents welded directly to the brake hatches. There are other inexplicable errors such as the superstructure to hull joint (including the rivets) that would not be found on an Ausfuhrung F2 in that manner but instead would be found on a Ausfuhrung D with applique armor. So in short, the RO I Panzer IVF2 interior has the attributes of an Ausfuhrung B-D.
In contrast, the RO II Panzer IVF2 interior is comprised of interior components like the Fahrersehklappe "14.5" which would be found only on an Ausfuhrung A. The control rod is still there which points at Ausfuhrung A through E. But it is that distinctive Fahrersehklappe that was produced for and only found on the Ausfuhrung A that points to the obvious that this is an A interior. My guess is that TW at some point realised that they screwed up on the interior of RO I's Panzer IVF2 and in their haste to rectify this on their second game, they used the most readily found picture of a Panzer IV interior which just happens to be that of the Ausfuehrung A from a 1938 manual. Marked with red arrows are the two peice overhead hatches (Ausf. A feature only), the Fahrersehklappe "14.5" (Ausf. A feature only), the control rod (Ausf. A-E feature), and the early box shaped Kampfwagen Fahrer Fernrohr. All of these things are not present on a real life Ausfuhrung F2. So instead of correcting RO I's F2 exterior with D interior problem in RO II, they further aggravated it in RO II by mating an F2 exterior with an even earlier A interior. A very rudimentary and rookie mistake.
Finally, here is a picture of what a genuine Panzer IVF2 interior (or G) would look like. The Fahrersehklappe 50 and late triangular shaped Kampfwagen Fahrer Fernrohr 2 are marked in red arrows. This is what should be in game and not whatever ambiguous mixing mess that they made out of the Panzer IVF2's innards.
The Radio operator's MG ball mount interior (Kugelblende 50) for the RO II Panzer IVF2 is another internal erroneous mess that I won't go into, if ever.
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So basicly TWI spent thousands of dollars on something that is totally innacurate?
lol
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F
Field Marshal Rommel
Guest
Yes. And if you want further confirmation then I suggest to please contact Thomas L Jentz if you can and ask him if he has internal pictures of an 7 Serie BW (F2/G).
*Waves goodbye*
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So...inaccuracies in the interior vehicle models means somehow that they should not be done at all? What about the exterior models? Any inaccuracies there? If there is we should have invisible tanks instead of inaccurate models? Oops, there're a couple inaccuracies in the player models too, let's have invisible soldiers. These things sure would save a lot of time! I think too, the battlefields are highly inaccurate, so let's not have those either. Man, we are saving a ton of time with this idea, we're going to have so much content!!
Sorry, I know I'm making a ridiculous ad absurdum, but I don't agree with the principle at work, that inaccuracies found means that fully 3D interiors as a system needs to be scrapped. Disappointing to rivet counters? Sure. This is nothing new to video games or art in general. It's part of Socrates' argument against the poets. Artists fudge and get things wrong all the time. It's been said over and over, but this isn't a simulator.
Sorry, I know I'm making a ridiculous ad absurdum, but I don't agree with the principle at work, that inaccuracies found means that fully 3D interiors as a system needs to be scrapped. Disappointing to rivet counters? Sure. This is nothing new to video games or art in general. It's part of Socrates' argument against the poets. Artists fudge and get things wrong all the time. It's been said over and over, but this isn't a simulator.
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"Wasn't worth the effort in the first place" is not the same as "needs to be scrapped now". "Vehicle interior animations have no discernable impact on gameplay" is not the same as "nothing in the game has an impact on gameplay". Your reductio is indeed absurdam because the "principle" to which you object is only a figment of your flawed interpretation of what other people are saying.
The closest anyone has come to arguing that is people suggesting that for future tanks, a simpler way to represent the interior would have little to no impact on gameplay. They also point out that the massive research, modelling, coding and animation effort represented by the vehicle interiors makes it very hard for modders to fill in the gaps left by TWI (as they did for RO1).
The closest anyone has come to arguing that is people suggesting that for future tanks, a simpler way to represent the interior would have little to no impact on gameplay. They also point out that the massive research, modelling, coding and animation effort represented by the vehicle interiors makes it very hard for modders to fill in the gaps left by TWI (as they did for RO1).
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I go both ways; while I do love the detailed interiors, seeing my characters legs and my crewmen, I think that I would also enjoy tanks coming out within a shorter time-span with less detailed interiors. If this is already the case, what with the tanks innies being done before and things moving along easier, then I don't mind waiting, but people's alternatives of basically modeled or detailed interiors could work for me so long as it had still had functionality and looked intended. By that I mean, no half finished models for the interior, no block textures or lack of animations etc. But I could live with them being entirely absent (Strange I know, but I work like that).
I've created a little image of how I think perhaps the interior could look, while still keeping its functionality and not looking half-arsed or rushed. (essentially just black areas around view ports, similar to what ArmA2 has) Probably a bad idea I know but it is just a basic representation of what I could live with.
I've created a little image of how I think perhaps the interior could look, while still keeping its functionality and not looking half-arsed or rushed. (essentially just black areas around view ports, similar to what ArmA2 has) Probably a bad idea I know but it is just a basic representation of what I could live with.
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You're mixing up two different approaches to the issue, though. The post I was responding to made neither of the two points you represent here, which have a much different emphasis than that of technical accuracy. I quoted the part of the post which stated outright 'fix it or get rid of it'. He didn't even say it wasn't worth it. Hypothetically, it would probably have been very much worth it to him had the modeling been accurate to sufficient detail. On the other hand, no amount of accuracy mitigates the two main points you brought up, because accuracy isn't the issue with those, the issue is time invested regardless of success in technical detail.
I agree with those who think the best way to move forward is to incorporate some set of vehicle parameters that do not require fully modeled interiors for custom vehicle content, but allows TWI to continue to produce as detailed interiors as they aspire to and feel can achieve timeline checkpoints. If a primary arguing point is that it doesn't affect gameplay, then if this is really true there should be a way to create a two-tiered system, one for TWI content and one for custom content to be accomodated. I don't really think the modder's complaint is a fair one so long as it takes the angle that TWI shouldn't do interiors because the modders can't keep up. Amateur modders or pros who do it in their spare time but just don't have the time to invest should not bind the makers of games to their diminished standards just because it makes it more difficult to make their own content up to the same level.
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As far as the modders are concerned, this is a very viable workaround of the problem of too much detail to handle, I'm surprised someone would rather complain about how high the bar is rather than come up with a simple solution like this on their own. Not sure I would like TWI to do their vehicles this way, however.
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Not a bad idea, a somewhat generic interior that is more simple and less detailed for community made tanks. Enough to get the feel of what you are doing and what crew position you are in, but not so much that the tank is never finished due to the large amount of work involved.
Still, for TWI I would prefer they continue with the way it already is.
Still, for TWI I would prefer they continue with the way it already is.
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@MarioBava: well played sir
I must admit I personally don't particularly care about the cosmetic details of equipment etc - I'm only interested in how it performs and plays. Others, as you point out, may be less... flexible in their approach.
On the main point I think we are in agreement.
I must admit I personally don't particularly care about the cosmetic details of equipment etc - I'm only interested in how it performs and plays. Others, as you point out, may be less... flexible in their approach.
On the main point I think we are in agreement.
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At OP: Yes. The animations are nice, but serve no gameplay purpose whatsoever.
That I'm aware of. Anyone need to correct me?
They hate freedom, don't support the troops, and secretely write love letters to terrorists, too!
That I'm aware of. Anyone need to correct me?
They hate freedom, don't support the troops, and secretely write love letters to terrorists, too!
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