Sacrifice of Vehicle Interior Animations & Enter/Exit:

[Mekhazzio]

Ah..... there is truth - Mek dislikes tanks. Your bias is showing.

I freely admit my bias. My armor love is heavily bent towards the modern side of things. There's a lot of meat to be found in the differences of the M1/Leopard2 vs the T-80 vs the Merkava, or even the M2 vs the BMPs-1/2/3 vs the Marder. WW2 armor is pretty dull by comparison, and the biggest difference you'll ever see between platforms is that some won't have turrets, and thus are just inferior to near uselessness in maneuver warfare. There's no point whatsoever to the silliness that some WW2 games go to in stocking 47 different flavors of Sherman.

Odd you should say that.... In RO and DH, both of which are very successful, had no entry and exit anims.

When the ideal gameplay response to, say, an encroaching AT soldier, is to teleport out of your tank and gun him down, I consider that rather the opposite of successfully creating any sort of authentic tanker atmosphere. It's goofy enough in a completely arbitrary game like Tribes; it has no place whatsoever in RO.

 

[Dr.Phibles]

you really need to be able to get out of your tank on the larger maps makes it easier too look over hills and through bushes without exposing yourself..

 

[MarioBava]

I hear the hand-wringing over timelines and player impatience. The problems with tanking in RO2 have been manifold, especially quite early on. It's an ambitious project, perhaps overambitious, I don't know.

But I actually don't think TWI should step back from the "line in the sand" that they have drawn with regard to tank/vehicle modeling. They shouldn't start doing it half-***. Once you unveil something that awesome, --sorry, I'm really impressed by it-- you should hardly dial it back. I would rather have the level of detail remain consistent throughout the project than have 2 vehicles that exemplify what they can do and a bunch of other vehicles that don't. Tank interiors clearly took more time than TWI originally thought. That said I don't think it is safe to assume that 6+ months per vehicle is a valid expectation for the future.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

I freely admit my bias. My armor love is heavily bent towards the modern side of things. There's a lot of meat to be found in the differences of the M1/Leopard2 vs the T-80 vs the Merkava, or even the M2 vs the BMPs-1/2/3 vs the Marder. WW2 armor is pretty dull by comparison, and the biggest difference you'll ever see between platforms is that some won't have turrets, and thus are just inferior to near uselessness in maneuver warfare. There's no point whatsoever to the silliness that some WW2 games go to in stocking 47 different flavors of Sherman.

I can tell plenty of differences between all of the tanks in ROCA and RO1..... Many prefer to use one specific tank because it suits their needs and their tactics, while others prefer different ones.... and it all leads to a wide variety of fighting styles and gameplay, even if it's the same map over and over again.

It's no different than having different bolt rifles to choose from, or different MG's to choose from, or different SMG's..... they all have similarities, but they all have their unique pros and cons that the individual can decide on if they want to use them or not.

When the ideal gameplay response to, say, an encroaching AT soldier, is to teleport out of your tank and gun him down, I consider that rather the opposite of successfully creating any sort of authentic tanker atmosphere. It's goofy enough in a completely arbitrary game like Tribes; it has no place whatsoever in RO.

Is it "Authentic" to have tank crew members locked inside their tanks with no chance of escape? Before they left for the battlefield, did their commanding officers bolt the hatches shut and won't let them back out until they return?

I'd hate to be the one to open those hatches after a day or two of bathroom breaks floating around inside..... cuz that's authentic.

 

[TrOOper]

Would it be possible to leave the 2 current tank animations alone but devise a standard,less detailed overlay for new vehicles? Similar to RO1 interior views. Maybe have 2, one for tanks and 1 for self propelled guns.......Then at some later date, animations could be upgraded in patches......

Also, it seems like some people dont want the ability to exit the tank just to teleport out and kill and AT infantry that is close....What if the ability to exit is restricted when infantry is within xx feet of tank. Otherwise use of the teleport is allowed.....

I said it in another thread; As Stalin said, "Quantity has a quality all its own."

 

[Vapid]

No. We shouldn't be cutting corners at this stage - a decision was made early on (it may have been the wrong one in hindsight, admittedly) to do these things in detail, so I say they stick with that and we be patient. Abandoning this maxim reeks of desperation and I don't think it's a good road to go down.

I just hope we get the light tanks before summer...

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

In all the previous RO's that had vehicles/tanks, I never saw tank jumping as any real problem since those who hopped out of their tanks did so because their tanks were basically ready to blow up due to being shot up by other tanks and anti tank classes..... which meant that if they did hop out, they're right in the sights of whoever has been shooting the crap out of their vehicle and thus, quite an easy target.

I saw players teleport out of tanks to go into buildings and cap them, or even just teleport out of tanks to hunt down nearby infantry, too often I might say.

 

[RiccardoTheBeAst]

Absolutely NO. They're not an aesthetics factor, they're here for realism, so no.

And also the major problems are at the beginning, as Nikita said.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

No. We shouldn't be cutting corners at this stage... I say they stick with that and we be patient.

Patient?

I was pleased with how RO2 played right out of the box, I expected glitches long before the beta was launched. I still enjoyed the game almost every single day while others whined on about how it wasn't RO1 and demanded RO Classic (or totally re-programing RO2 to be RO1)

I was getting worn out on RO2's content selection before Christmas. Before that I was ready for new content. By Christmas I noticed I was starting to lose interest a bit, while still voicing for new content. By Jan, somewhere along the line, I stopped playing.

Sometimes I look at the icon & think of logging on to play, but then think "Meh"

I've been patient for far longer than most in here. I've been waiting this whole time while a chunk of the RO community went on spam rallies to get what you wanted: RO Classic.

While another chunk of the community simply left altogether. Another chunk stayed around & played constantly, while defending TWI day in and day out over the state of the game.

Well now some of us are reaching their limit of playability in RO2, or already have. And soon you'll all have your RO Classic to play. To play RO2 constantly for a few months, and then you'll be in our boat, while we already left in the escape raft months before and if the content is still trickling through at months on end, if at all, if there's still no real support for large maps, then you'll be getting bored & overplayed too.

None of this is a threat, it's just the laws of nature. You get bored, you move onto something else.

Abandoning this maxim reeks of desperation and I don't think it's a good road to go down.

You're damn right it's desperation. Have you looked at the player counts recently? RO Classic might stabalize or even bump them slightly higher for a while, but if content doesn't come soon, it's going to eventually flatline.

 

[Nikita]

I still don't buy the argument that anything needs to be sacrificed where vehicles are concerned.

Think about it. The dialogue and sounds are already in place. The system for giving the AI driver orders is already in place. The armor system is now programmed, if imperfect. The T-70 only has two crew positions to switch between. Driving animations will be identical between certain tanks. Assault guns are turretless, removing the need to make the turret a seperate, traversing model. The first damage models may have been difficult, but the second set become easier with experience. The first interior animations may have been difficult but the second set becomes more streamlined in development. And it's not as if the whole team is working on the tanks, leaving everything else to wither.

And on the content front, Yoshiro has said that there are four new maps in the works, in varying degrees of progress. Add in custom maps like Coldsteel, Ogledow, Butovo, Univermag, Arad2, and Prokhoy, and we're not doing so badly. Server admins just need to start running those custom maps! Add in the two 'light' tanks (Panzer III is more of a medium tank), the release of Classic Mode, the fixing of Mekhazzio's mutator, and the final version of Mamayev, and you guys can start telling all of your friends who left to start coming back.

In case you didn't get that, CONTENT IS COMING

Fully detailed and animated tanks is one of the things that makes RO2 special. Sure, it requires loads of work, but I'm just saying that we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss that work.

 

[how2skate_com]

Cpt-Praxius: I agree with... your last 100 posts.

 

[defektive]

Patient?

I was pleased with how RO2 played right out of the box...

I've been patient for far longer than most in here. I've been waiting this whole time while a chunk of the RO community went on spam rallies to get what you wanted: RO Classic.

You've had it pretty good so far by the sounds of it. At least you've had these months to get bored of a game that you like. For the Roosters (who have been waiting for far longer than you have) the boredom countdown timer starts only once the ROC beta hits the dirt running. I suggest you be patient - yes, patient - and enjoy the new content that will come as part and parcel with the ROC release.

 

[Fafnir_6]

@Nikita: I don't wish to dismiss TWI's tank work to date (the interiors are a work of art). I am more concerned about the future of RO2 and the fact that it takes so long and it is so difficult to make new vehicles that the modding community is stepping away from them.

@ =GG= Mr Moe & Mekhazzio: Have you guys played Darkest hour? It can take quite a while to get out of your tank (plus I think your avatar starts to take damage when your tank catches fire). Mr Moe, you built the Gazzala map for MN so you know how tank exits are managed in that game (Gazzala is a great map, BTW, although nowadays I wish it had bots). I think tank exiting is well modelled in MN and DH.

Personally, I think tank entry and exit is absolutely required. Besides, bailing out of your tank is REALISTIC. I've seen WWII footage of a Panther tank crew doing it. I see why you want full animations but in order to offset the massive amount of work required to make that, why not just have the tank crew spawn next the hatch on the outside of the tank (after moving to a hatched position and mantling) so they are high up and fully visible. You could also couple the tank exit action with a fatigue/stamina penalty (making the crew slow and extra vulnerable). Additionally, team points could be granted for destroying the vehicle even if it is unoccupied, giving you credit for the destruction of enemy assets.

What do you think?

Fafnir_6

 

[/Sven\]

I vote no....Imo, is one of the strong points of the game ....
because I think that internal models and animations are a fantastic thing that few other games can have ....add a touch of realism...

 

[Yoshiro]

It's not just the animations. Due to what we model in game (including the physics, armor and penetration) it takes awhile to set up. RO 1 tanks are very simplistic in comparison.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

...@ =GG= Mr Moe & Mekhazzio: Have you guys played Darkest hour? It can take quite a while to get out of your tank (plus I think your avatar starts to take damage when your tank catches fire). Mr Moe, you built the Gazzala map for MN so you know how tank exits are managed in that game (Gazzala is a great map, BTW, although nowadays I wish it had bots). I think tank exiting is well modelled in MN and DH....

Fafnir_6

Oh thank you. Yes, I have played both. I don't care for the exiting etc because I've seen more abuse than good done with it. The "Its realistic but leads to unrealistic behavior argument." I would rather things stay as they are now in ROHOS. However, I didn't vote in the poll because I could accept it either way since I lived with it in ROOST.

 

[clambo]

Yoshi:

Since the T-34 and Pzkw IV hulls were used for different models like T34/85, Stug IV, etc. and can they be added that much quicker with the hull work already done?

That, and the since the Pzkw Iv is a lengthened Pzkw III hull too - with all of the regular Stugs etc. so that should be faster to make with much of the same component, dimension , and fighting crew space being identical right?


.....................

I'd also be for the screen going to a 3rd person view of the tank (easy to implement) with a timer ticking down the secs before the position change takes place. If that knocks a good percentage of time off bringing out new models - then go for it.

 

[Major_Day]

Yoshi:

Since the T-34 and Pzkw IV hulls were used for different models like T34/85, Stug IV, etc. and can they be added that much quicker with the hull work already done?

That, and the since the Pzkw Iv is a lengthened Pzkw III hull too - with all of the regular Stugs etc. so that should be faster to make with much of the same component, dimension , and fighting crew space being identical right?


.....................

I'd also be for the screen going to a 3rd person view of the tank (easy to implement) with a timer ticking down the secs before the position change takes place. If that knocks a good percentage of time off bringing out new models - then go for it.

What's the point of adding new tanks when we only have one real tank map?

 

[Mike_Nomad]

What's the point of adding new tanks when we only have one real tank map?

Hahahaha ya just hadda say that!

 

[Yoshiro]

Yoshi:

Since the T-34 and Pzkw IV hulls were used for different models like T34/85, Stug IV, etc. and can they be added that much quicker with the hull work already done?

That, and the since the Pzkw Iv is a lengthened Pzkw III hull too - with all of the regular Stugs etc. so that should be faster to make with much of the same component, dimension , and fighting crew space being identical right?

Yes, it has already speed things up as the next tanks share several things in common with the existing ones. But as I said, it isn't all in the modeling and animation. The set up is also a major component here (check out the tanks in the SDK)