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Will bots always be allowed on ranked servers?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Atomskytten View Post
    Blame the game not the players.

    When levelling became part of RO2 it changed the game's core values completely.
    Levelling and weapons grinding is now an integral part of the game and unlocking every weapon and reaching 'Hero' status is the game's primary goal - good teamplay is a secondary one at best.
    Oh I'm not blaming the players the grind for most things is ridiculous at best. But the bots are part of the game and putting silly incentives is 'okay' but it's not okay when you give players a way to get that incentive quicker than normal by actively hurting the game via avoiding populated servers or populating servers.

    Either the incentives shouldn't have been there or bots shouldn't have counted towards rank. The game would probably still be unhealthy at this point(as it has a ton of other problems than just bots) but it would probably be a lot better off than it is now. Because when you open the server browser and you see 200 servers all with one or two people in it each, the rest bots, what does that say to you? It says dead game to me. Now remove the incentive to play on 'bot' farming servers and players will clump up instead of spreading out - and having 4-5 active servers says an 'alive' game to me.

    edit:
    just to clarify, I'm not saying bots should be removed. They help seed servers by giving the first few people that join something to do. It's just they should have never countered towards rank. It's too late now though as the damage is done and if tripwire change it they'd probably piss off the bot farmers and lower the population even more.
    Last edited by Kerc Kasha; 04-06-2012, 12:33 PM.

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    • #17
      i am a bot!
      1 million fps Slow Motion video of bullet impacts made by Werner Mehl from Kurzzeit - YouTube

      Support your custom mappers! Only play servers willing to run custom maps!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by r5cya View Post
        i am a bot!
        I knew it. R2D2... C3PO... R5CYA...
        TWB*BlueDuck

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        • #19
          It makes no difference if bots count for rank or not. High score is handed out for nearly uninteractive mechanics such as simply being in a cap zone, and there are no meaningful score penalties, so ranking will inevitably and continually advance regardless of player performance.

          Thus, the only change in result from fighting incompetent enemies is in the rate of gain, and considering that the only statistically relevant gains from the ranking system (the bolt bayonets and PPSh drum mag) are all handed out quite early, the rate of gain is of negligible impact.

          You may as well complain about the lengths some people go to for TF2 hats.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mekhazzio View Post
            It makes no difference if bots count for rank or not. High score is handed out for nearly uninteractive mechanics such as simply being in a cap zone, and there are no meaningful score penalties, so ranking will inevitably and continually advance regardless of player performance.

            Thus, the only change in result from fighting incompetent enemies is in the rate of gain, and considering that the only statistically relevant gains from the ranking system (the bolt bayonets and PPSh drum mag) are all handed out quite early, the rate of gain is of negligible impact. Increased weapon stats are significant.

            You may as well complain about the lengths some people go to for TF2 hats.
            Except that the rate of gain is multiplied by a ridiculous amount when farming against bots and there are actual tangible in-game benefits that go far beyond mere cosmetics.

            I mean, the speed with which you can level against bots isn't even comparable to the real speed of a good player versus only humans. Just because everyone will eventually level up given enough time doesn't make it any more rational to allow those with a little spare time to effortlessly zoom to the top of the levelling system.
            Last edited by captain pain; 04-09-2012, 10:19 AM.

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            • #21
              Probably the best solution, and I actually have no idea whether this is already true or not, is to have a minimum threshold of bot difficulty be a switch for ranked or unranked status. Anything lower than the top 2-3 ranks of difficulty and your server becomes unranked so there are no "easy bots! RANK UP FAST!!" servers.

              In my experience, I do think overall I have more success and probably earn somewhat more points in a server with mostly bots. This is mostly due to the AI's general pathing choices as compared with a thinking human player. Bots tend to clump up and repetitively take the same routes over and over to where camping over an area can earn you a lot of kills. They also tend to have predictable reactions to objective captures. For example, on Commissar's if H is taken while it can still be retaken, H will soon be a target range of enemy bots flooding in to recapture. If an objective cannot be retaken, you see the bots flocking from all over the map to the next capturable objective. It's not that humans never do these things, but bots do them a lot and in a way that seems vulnerable.

              But, am I the only one that on an individual basis finds bots harder to kill? They zig zag back and forth so unpredictably you can't reliably lead them at distance and then once they acquire you as a target you're going to be dead unless you kill them quickly or can cover for long enough for their attention to get caught by another poor sap. A lot of times when I can't get in a humans-only server, I find myself shooting at a cluster of zig-zagging bots hoping my bullet catches one of them mid-weave. I've also noticed they are most vulnerable when they mantle obstacles too often and openly (both of their "strengths" are eliminated while mantling: neither can they shoot nor can they zigzag).

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              • #22
                Does this incessant whining over BOTS ever make sense? It really has to stop.

                Server Admins have provided you ppl with Servers for YOU to enjoy not dictate how they are Admin'ed or run.

                You don't like bots? Go to a different Server. Stop the BS.
                Last edited by Mike_Nomad; 04-09-2012, 02:03 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by MarioBava View Post
                  But, am I the only one that on an individual basis finds bots harder to kill?
                  Yes.

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                  • #24
                    Ro1 didn't have this problem. It had a bot filter. I never played with bots online. Bots suck.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by captain pain View Post
                      ...and there are actual tangible in-game benefits that go far beyond mere cosmetics.
                      That 0.15 seconds of extra sprint is game-breaking!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mekhazzio View Post
                        That 0.15 seconds of extra sprint is game-breaking!
                        How about 20% improvements in weapons stats that can only be gained through kill-earned points. You don't get those from capturing territory, but you do get oodles of them from bot farming when compared to normal play.
                        Last edited by captain pain; 04-09-2012, 08:50 PM.

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                        • #27
                          You know, I'm not particularly fond of the ranking system, but I also couldn't care less if someone is getting a little boost in their aiming because of it either. Chances are if they were going to hit me, they would hit me without the little boost anyways. I'm content with my own skills

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by =GG= Mr Moe View Post
                            You know, I'm not particularly fond of the ranking system, but I also couldn't care less if someone is getting a little boost in their aiming because of it either. Chances are if they were going to hit me, they would hit me without the little boost anyways. I'm content with my own skills
                            We're not discussing the ranking system as a whole though, are we? Just the impact of bot farming on it... your post doesn't really address that.

                            Like I said, it seems like it trivializes the entire thing when people can just rack up enormous amounts of points by grinding it up artificially high against bots. Which brings me back to the original question: will bots always be allowed in ranked servers?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by captain pain View Post
                              We're not discussing the ranking system as a whole though, are we? Just the impact of bot farming on it... your post doesn't really address that.

                              Like I said, it seems like it trivializes the entire thing when people can just rack up enormous amounts of points by grinding it up artificially high against bots. Which brings me back to the original question: will bots always be allowed in ranked servers?
                              But why would you be bothered by other people bot farming? That's my point, so what if they do and rack up points. If that's how they want to waste their time...

                              And I'm sure bots will remain in ranked servers.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by captain pain View Post
                                We're not discussing the ranking system as a whole though, are we? Just the impact of bot farming on it... your post doesn't really address that.

                                Like I said, it seems like it trivializes the entire thing when people can just rack up enormous amounts of points by grinding it up artificially high against bots. Which brings me back to the original question: will bots always be allowed in ranked servers?
                                "Leveling up" is trivial to the overall gameplay in RO2. So it trivializes the trivial. Who really cares? The biggest complaint I hear about the level ups is the inability NOT to have one once you get it.

                                You weren't probably weren't around when Steam Acheivements were introduced to RO:Ost late in its life. We all thought it was going to be the death of the gameplay RO:Ost was so famous for. And guess what? It was. For about 2 weeks. Just as the veteran players surmized, there were (for example) a few who went for the thrill of getting that 100th bayo kill at all costs to get that beloved achievement. Then those that found that sort of thing important realized that... meh....everyone's got them...

                                I wish there was no leveling period. Thank God we don't unlock completely new weapons! I'd be hard pressed to continue with the series were that to happen. As it is, I don't have any real issues with the current system (except for the lack of choice....which is in the works, so its a moot worry.)

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