Announcement

Collapse
1 of 2 < >

WIP Forum Upgrade

Please pardon our mess as we continue to iterate on the forum style, css and images. If you have any suggestions be sure to let us know in the off topic part of the forum!
2 of 2 < >

Forum Rules

CHANGES
  • Items changed, or highlighted for future attention, on 20 July 2013 are highlighted in yellow.
Global Rules
  • Forum moderators may or may not be Tripwire Interactive staff members, but either way, please respect them, as they are the authority of the forums. Speaking to them with intentional spite will not be tolerated and may result in the loss of your forum privileges.
  • Any decisions made by any member of staff or moderator are final and not subject to discussion. Doing so may result in a ban from the site. The owners of Tripwire Interactive Forums reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason, as well as to remove access to the forums for any individuals with or without warning for breaches of the rules.
  • If you have a complaint regarding another user, PM the appropriate moderators, or if you have an administrative issue, [RO]schneidzekk.
General Behaviour
  • Use the search function before posting. Chances are your question has already been answered.
  • Use a title that describes the content of your post. Don't use all caps or special characters to draw attention either in the title or the body of the post.
  • Up to 10 emoticons are allowed in a post
  • Political discussions are prohibited.
  • Flaming - We do not tolerate abusive, malicious, personal attacks. You will be banned if you persist in this behavior.
  • Trolls - Anyone deliberately antagonizing other forum users by posting 'flame bait' type messages is not welcome. You will be banned (possibly without warning depending on the severity of the issue) if you persist in this behavior.
  • Personal insults (directed at anyone) will result in a ban. If the behavior is not corrected, it will be made more permanent.
  • Constructive criticism is welcome. However keep in mind we (and other forums goers) may not agree with you. If you can't keep the conversation civil, you will be removed from the forums.
  • The use of hyperbole, one liners, and images as part of a forum debate is likely to get you infracted. You have many ways to participate and be a constructive part of this community, even when you disagree.
  • To make the highlighted bits above 100% clear to everyone, the following WILL NOT BE TOLERATED:
    1. Personal attacks, insults, antagonism of any forum-goers, moderators or Tripwire Interactive staff.
    2. Breaches of confidentiality and privacy of any sort.
    3. Any form of racism, bigotry or attacks on race, creed or color.
    4. Linking to posts on other forums related to ANY of the above, whether you are the originator or not, without exception.
  • There has been too much in the way of abhorrent personal behaviors in the past. These will cease. It doesn't matter who started it or who reacted to it - it will all result in moderator action. If you have to indulge your hatreds, for whatever reason, go do it elsewhere - and do not try and drag our forum-goers over to enjoy your hatreds.
  • We understand that people have strong feelings about our games, what we do for a living and how we respond (or don't) to comments on the forums. We all aren't going to agree about everything. So, BE CIVIL in your disagreements!
DO NOTs
  • DO NOT Transmit any message, information, data, text, software or graphic files, or other materials ("Content") that is unlawful (including illegal drug usage), harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, hateful or racially, ethnically, sexually or otherwise objectionable. This includes publicizing private information, such as individual's real names, IP addresses and anything else that might be used to identify them to the freakier members of the internet. This also means you may NOT publically share private communications (PM, email or anything else) without the original poster's permission.
  • DO NOT Post or transmit any Content that contains a virus, Trojan horse or other mischievous Content.
  • DO NOT Post or transmit any unsolicited advertising, promotional materials, "junk mail", "spam", "chain letters", "pyramid schemes" or any other form of solicitation.
  • DO NOT link to posts on any other forums, or any other form of media, that breaches our rules. It will be treated just the same as if you had posted it here.
  • DO NOT Double Post, cross Post or restart closed threads.
  • DO NOT Intentionally or unintentionally violate any applicable local, state, national or international law, rule or regulation.
  • DO NOT Upload or transmit any Content that infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary rights ("Rights") of any party.
  • DO NOT post cheats or exploits; THIS INCLUDES ALL/ANY REFERENCES TO HACKING, PIRATED SOFTWARE etc.
  • DO NOT complain about being banned from a server and DO NOT complain about other players on servers - that is between you and the admin, no need to get the community involved.
Username, Avatar and Signature Rules
  • Multiple registrations result in a ban.
  • No offensive user names
  • Avatars:
    Avatars are disabled.
  • All signatures should not exceed the following size limits, you can have both text and images
  • - For text signatures: 4 lines normal size, 8 lines small size and up to 100 chars per line. Font sizes above 2 are not allowed. (Blank lines count as lines.)
  • - For images in signatures: 1 image up to 400 pixels wide, 150 pixels tall and 100kb in size plus 2 lines normal size text and up to 100 chars per line
Netiquette: Written text has no inflection, and, as such, you should be careful how you write your messages as interpretation will vary from person to person. Please take advantage of the built-in emoticons to add such expression to your words. Please remember the golden rule: to treat other forum users the way you would like to be treated. Please use common courtesy, and enjoy using Red Orchestra's forums
Offensive material
The following is a list of some things that MAY be considered "offensive" by the moderators and the team. This is NOT an exclusive list and it does depend very much on context.

Crossing the line into "offensive" territory is likely to get you asked to change your name, sig or avatar or to withdraw/delete posts. This will be done politely by the moderators. If you refuse to comply further action WILL be taken once started, ultimately leading to banning from the forums.

A key point: please attempt to use your brains. What is mild humour to you may well be deeply offensive to others. While we have no intention of acting as politically-correct "thought police", we are on the lookout for those things that can cause offense and, in some cases, are actually still illegal in some jurisdictions.
  1. Names recalling notorious war criminals or personalities.
  2. Names recalling atrocities and war crimes in general, or units with particularly odious histories.
  3. Use of obscenities and expletives.
  4. Blatant racism, mysogynism or many other "ism"s.
  5. Use of symbolism and regalia recalling Nazism or Fascism; this does not include pics of soldiers who happen to have such symbols on their uniform, unless we feel this has been done to provoke. Please note that many Nazi symbols (including the Swastika) are still illegal in Germany and other countries and considered deeply offensive by many Europeans.
  6. Use of symbolism and regalia recalling Stalinism.
  7. On both the previous two, the moderators' views on the intention and impact of use of such symbols will be final - not yours. Please be understanding if you are advised to change something.
  8. In general, if a sig/avatar represents your allegiances in-game and is clearly "in part", it is likely to be fine; if the moderators feel you are trying to demonstrate unpalatable political allegiances, or to use it in an attempt to ridicule or provoke others you WILL be asked to change it. RO is NOT the place to make any extremist political statements of any kind.
Examples:
So people get the idea, some examples that would be considered offensive, numbered as above:
  1. "Hitler", "Beria"
  2. "NKVD Blocking Detachment", "Einsatzgruppen"
  3. This one should be pretty obvious...
  4. So should this - and it includes calling all Germans "Nazis" and all Soviets/Russians "Commies". It got boring 50 years ago, so stop it.
  5. Use of swastikas, fasces, SS-runes and so on for the Axis.
  6. There is actually very little overt symbolism from the Stalinist era; the hammer-and-sickle isn't offensive per se.
A simple rule-of-thumb: many Europeans find Nazi symbolism of any sort offensive; many Americans still find Soviet symbolism offensive. Engage your brain before using.




Final Note: this is NOT open to debate, so please do NOT start whining and moaning if a moderator asks you to change something. They will advise at first, giving reasons, then, if you take no notice, they will step up the pressure through to banning.
See more
See less

Regarding "One Frame Thread Lag"

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Regarding "One Frame Thread Lag"

    With it on, would your client's view stay one frame behind the information you received from the server (such as extrapolated player positions based on momentum, etc.)? 'Cause I swear the feedback from my hits (like shooting at a wall) appear sooner with it OFF. One frame may look like little but if you average 60FPS, one frame = 16.6ms, which is quite a substantial delay to stay behind when you're shooting someone running in the distance using legacy UT netcode.

    Perhaps I'm mistaken about what OFTL really does, and it's just a visual buffer thing with no negative consequences to netplay? I'd appreciate a technical post, as I searched this forum and all I found were guesses which are as a good as the one I have right now.

    I guess what I really mean to ask is, would playing with it on give you a less accurate idea of what is actually happening (even if by one frame?). If so, I will have to think twice before leaving it ON, despite it netting me a good 10 extra average FPS.

    ---
    Last edited by Echo Black; 11-09-2011, 03:17 PM.

  • #2
    Ok, here goes. Since this comes up quite often, I'll try to be as detailed as possible.

    First some background. The game runs essentially on 2 main threads - a game thread and a rendering thread. The game thread calculates all gameplay aspects such as shooting, hit registration, animation, IK, etc. The rendering thread calculates shadows, updates particle systems (such as smoke), and sends all the draw calls to the GPU for rendering.

    Although for most parts the rendering thread can run on its own, it is not entirely independent of the game thread. The game thread "tells" the render thread where your camera is so that the rendering thread can draw the environment from your current location. Another example would be when you shoot, the game thread evaluates your mouse click, computes the ballistics, and if it hits a wall, it "tells" the render thread the location where it hit so that the render thread can draw a bullet impact decal at that location.

    Because of this, the game thread needs to "talk" with the render thread. However, it cannot do so anytime it wants (effective threading simply doesn't work that way). So, it syncs from time to time, but otherwise goes about its own business. This sync time is usually at the end of a frame.

    Now, let's assume that your game thread is running faster than your render thread. The game thread computes the Nth frame, sync happens, and then your render thread renders your Nth frame. While the Nth frame is being rendered, the game thread can compute your (N+1)th frame in parallel. By the time the (N+1)th frame is finished by the game thread, the Nth thread MAY or MAY NOT be finished by the rendering thread. This is where "One Frame Thread Lag" comes in. If OFTL is off, the game thread will STALL at this point, waiting for the render thread, resulting in a performance drop. But, if you play with OFTL turned on, it will allow the game thread to queue up the (N+1)th frame and start working on the (N+2)th frame immediately, and the render thread can pick up and render the (N+1)th frame once it has finished rendering the Nth frame. This gives you MORE PARALLELISM, and hence better performance. Keep in mind that this will only happen for one frame - your render thread will NOT keep falling behind more and more as your game progresses.

    Now to answer your questions.

    Originally posted by Echo Black View Post
    With it on, would your client's view stay one frame behind the information you received from the server (such as extrapolated player positions based on momentum, etc.)?
    No. It is client side only.


    Originally posted by Echo Black View Post
    One frame may look like little but if you average 60FPS, one frame = 16.6ms, which is quite a substantial delay to stay behind
    To put matters into perspective, I quickly wrote up a code snippet to calculate the time it takes to double-click a mouse as fast as you can without moving. And, the avg. time for that is 13.6ms.

    Originally posted by Echo Black View Post
    I guess what I really mean to ask is, would playing with it on give you a less accurate idea of what is actually happening (even if by one frame?). If so, I will have to think twice before leaving it ON, despite it netting me a good 10 extra average FPS.
    This is a PC title and we like to give you as many options as possible to tweak the game to your liking. Note that most games will just have that on by default since it allows your game to run as fast as it can without any stalls. So, if you want to turn it off, you can. Just be aware of the performance implications. Hopefully, this post will give you a better idea of the pros and cons of this setting.

    TL;DR Leave this setting on for better frame rates. It won't adversely affect your hit registration or give you a less accurate idea of what is going on in the game.
    "A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code"

    Comment


    • #3
      always wondered what this setting was for!

      thanks devs for the input!

      now i will turn it on

      Comment


      • #4
        Many thanks for the thorough (and quick!) post. Far better than wading through incomplete theories and not knowing what to believe.

        ---

        Comment


        • #5
          +1
          Fantastic instructive and detailed post.
          In game ID: CoolIT

          Comment


          • #6
            Very informative and well explained. Have a chocolate cookie, redeye.
            [B][COLOR="White"]defekt[/COLOR][/B]

            Comment


            • #7
              This info should be in the FAQ.

              Comment


              • #8
                Lol, I was just discussing this with someone yesterday and decided to turn it off to see if it would help with with hit detection and did notice the performance hit.

                Thanks for the dev input! Guess I'll turn it back on.
                15,000 of you [Finns] will never again see your homes. You have also dealt hard blows, 200,000 Russians lie on the snowdrifts, gazing with broken eyes at our starry sky. The Winter War

                Comment


                • #9
                  Amazing reply from the TWI team.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think the name of the option should be changed; you read the word 'lag' and your first reaction is, "Nothankyouverymuch!" How about Sync Parallel Threads?
                    i5 2500K 3.3Ghz, OC to 4.5Ghz/GTX 570 1280MB OC/GTX 460 SE 1000MB for PhysX/DDR3-1600Mhz RAM, 8GB/TX-850 850W/ASUS P8P67 Deluxe mobo/Win 7 HP 64-bit, 1920x1080

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DesiQ View Post
                      I think the name of the option should be changed; you read the word 'lag' and your first reaction is, "Nothankyouverymuch!"
                      That's a correct response to it, though. It's a potential delay versus a potential framerate loss. You get to decide which you dislike more.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Glad I could help.

                        Originally posted by DesiQ View Post
                        I think the name of the option should be changed; you read the word 'lag' and your first reaction is, "Nothankyouverymuch!" How about Sync Parallel Threads?
                        That's a good point, and I have thought about this myself as well. I'm not sure if we'll be re-naming the setting, but adding more information about this in the game FAQ and elsewhere is a good idea.
                        "A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Many thanks. I wasn't sure at all what it done and couldn't find any concrete info.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I find "one frame lag" to be a more honest name for it. I dislike it intensely as on my PC it actually causes more hitching and at the cost of a laggier mouse. Certainly if you're sitting on 60fps then that one frame of lag isn't so bad, but if your frame rate tends to sit lower than that (as mine does), the lag period starts to get unacceptably high, especially if you have other factors causing "input lag" like a monitor with a high processing time, a low polling mouse, or similar.

                            Current Project: Rising Storm 2: Vietnam
                            Former Projects: Darkest Hour, Rising Storm
                            Programming Lead, Antimatter Games

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The first two posts in this thread need to be rendered in sync and added to the FAQ, Stickied .
                              No need to rename, we have the explanation.

                              Liked x 2.
                              in Moderation.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X