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About "RO2 Dying"

Cpt-Praxius said:
Indeed... and you even got two thumbs down from even posting the above.... nobody likes logic and reason anymore these days.... they just want to be right even when they're wrong and rep down anybody who doesn't unquestionably agree with their fear mongering, baseless crap.
Josef Nader said:
By the Nine, I don't think the attitudes on this forum could get any more toxic....
I have to agree with the above. If I am disappointed in something then that would be the community itself - people who are rude to each other just because they don't speak the same thing, those who bash the other people trying to communicate through the VOIP and make some teamplay, people who doesn't listen or even consider listening to players with experience, people who state their opinions as a fact without providing substance to boost it and so on... A bit of politeness won't hurt anyone and can even help, because when people are less aggressive and nice they can talk about things rather than fight with each other..

There are visible (on the forums as well as in-game) only a handful of people who seem to know what they are talking about (and by that I mean that their posts/threads are constructive). I heard a lot of things about RO community being more mature, but I simply fail to see it when I witness how the people act in this neighbourhood. While I don't care for the reputation - since anybody can give + or - to anyone for any reason - I don't mind an intelligent discussion. I'd only wish to have more of them here.
 
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Actually if some of the features in this so called preview A Wilson was promoting were actually in the game (so what happpened to the damage model mentioned here) we may be a bit happier

http://www.dealspwn.com/red-orchesta-2-heroes-stalingrad-rising-storm-expansion-preview-75001

I presume they were previewing Mr Wilsons Sales Bull rather than an actual copy

Classics have to be

Wilson informed me that Tripwire were sick of the pomp and linearity of most FPS games these days, and that Red Orchestra 2

In fact, 'hardcore' doesn't quite cut it when it comes to describing Red Orchestra 2's sense of authenticity. Rather than just taking damage and regenerating health over time, wounds actually wound you if they don't kill you outright. If you're shot in the shoulder, you can't raise your weapon. A wounded leg slows you to a crawl



Though Alarm bells should have rang at this

There'll be no trudging through barren, empty maps; just furiously hardcore action from the moment the match begins
 
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[...]The pace is what players choose to make it. If people choose to run and gun the pace will be faster. If you want the pace to be slower then you need to find a way to influence other players to slow down and play more tactically. Taking away freedom isn't, in my opinion, the answer when someone else makes a choice you don't like.
Which is what Tripwire made, in my opinion. They removed some of the gimmicky, unrealistic elements of RO1 while keeping that core of larger scale (by larger, I am comparing to the FPS juggernaut of CoD) combined arms warfare that is less than forgiving and leans toward historical authenticity.
If you're right about nobody visiting unranked servers, then doesn't that actually support the notion that the majority of people playing are happy with the game as it is? The only thing, so far as I understand it, that you lose going from a ranked to an unranked server is stat progression (if I'm wrong here, then please correct me). If people aren't willing to give that up, can one not conclude that they want it?

A narrow minded view, to be sure. Accessible doesn't mean devoid of tactics. I will once again point out that players will play the way they want to. This game is as tactical and teamwork oriented as you and the people you play with choose to make it. If you want to play tactically, do it. The problem, as I see it, is that those who prefer tactical play get upset when someone else doesn't and wants to change the game to make it impossible for other folks to play their way. Again, removing player choice is not the way to build a successful game, in my opinion.

So, in the end RO2 is a great tactical shooter but the problem is that the players don't play it correctly?

No. Just no.

If it's possible to sprints up for stairs, run around and shoot people from the hip with the MG, and in overall just go rambo, this is what people will do. If the game allows it people will play the game like that simply because it works. Otherwise we can say that COD is a tactical shooter IF the player play it tactical. That's not correct. RO2 doesnt punish you for using no tactics or playing the game like rambo. It allows you to do it and it awards you for it. The diffrence between a real tactical shooter is that you're punished for not using tactics and not being carefull.

It's here the accesibility comes in. In order to make a game accesible you'll have to make it intersting for everyone. Making a tactical shooter intresting for people that don't like tactical shooter means that you'll have to remove the real tactical side of it and make it optinal. If tactics are OPTIONAL, it's just like any other game in terms of tactical gameplay. Because we can play COD in a tactical manner but that doesnt mean the game is tactical - as a matter of fact, cod is probably as far from a tactical game you can get. If you aren't punished for run and gun behaviour nobody will care to play it as a tactical shooter since there's no point to. Why spend time playing the game tactical when someone with more perks can rush by and hipshoot me with the stg? What's the point of playing tactical if there is a lockdowntimer? There isnt. As a matter of fact, the lockdown timer itself punish players that play this ''tactical'' shooter. Otherwise I can we can say that all games are tactical shooters if you play them tactically which is not true. I am not saying that YOU shouldn't enjoy RO2 because of this, but please, what you just said are lame excuses.
 
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I'm kinda happy that people left for BF3. Those guys weren't the ones interested in this game in long term anyway. What I still do miss is the ones who stayed with the game to start play normally.
About the Ramm's post, I can't wait to see what you guys are up to, although I do miss that there is no mention on further game optimization. I got decent FPS now (40-50), much better then on start, but with my system I do expect to see a stable 60 FPS in upcomming months. Wish you all the best. :)
 
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Probably pointless making the point but in the end I think the result will be a decent game. Once larger maps with combined arms come out together with some realism modifications then there will finally be a game that most of us want.

Its playable at the moment, in particular Spartanovka is fun but far from what is wanted by the community but it will get there. Unfortunately when the game gets to this point then we'll have to deal with the uber-arrogant realism jerks and their million server rules...:rolleyes:

So at the moment, it's time for something alot of people here don't have, i.e. a bit patience (i include myself in that too)
 
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So at the moment, it's time for something alot of people here don't have, i.e. a bit patience (i include myself in that too)

I disagree. Paying for "potential" is like ordering a burger and being served the ingredients. The games industry is the only (entertainment) one in which authors can get away with selling "potential". Bugs and issues are a reality of software development, no game will ever be 100% bug-free. I (and most people into games, I'd wager) understand that. But I think it's far healthier in the long run for the consumer to demand a high-quality, polished experience from the get-go, regardless of who's selling it. Don't mantain a standard for Blizzard and other for Tripwire (for example). That way, standards in general keep on rising, and sloppy developers are not given any quarter.

Rev Rant: Indie Mercy - YouTube

I'm not too fond of this guy's videos, but he makes a great point.

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yes, great, I wish that too, but....what exactly do you plan to do about it? I can only assume you own the game.
Choice is Wait or stop playing altogether. If the latter, why bother coming on here anymore, there are no further complaints to make that havent already been made.
 
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yes, great, I wish that too, but....what exactly do you plan to do about it?

I don't know. What I know is suggesting others "just be a little more patient" is just bollocks. People are not waiting for a gift or a free sample. Making a fuss over that would be childish and uncalled for. They're waiting on their entertainment purchase, and a forced wait at that.

To be fair, I don't think RO2 is (or was released) in the sorriest state I've ever seen in a game (STALKER on release and the latest IL2 come to mind as worse offenders), but I do feel the price I paid for RO2 warranted a better service than what I'm getting. I saw my country's community for this game bloom up and right after that, die out. Now I only have laggy servers to play on, and contending with the legacy UT netcode for much longer will probably make me quit. I don't blame TWI for the lack of continued interest in RO2 over here, but I feel that if RO2's release was a bit less awful, maybe this wouldn't have happened. Unlike other members here, I'm not holding out for a miraculous player comeback. I've never seen a convincing one happen for any "dead" game, short of really absurd stuff happening (like going free to play).

Vote with your wallet, they say. I don't mean to be rude, but next time I'll deliberate a lot longer before shelling out cash for a TWI game. Their credit is negative with me, so to say.

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So you like it that a 5 year old game that is actually amazing and far better then its sequel, is dead?

I do.... it did it's thing, my total hours spent playing RO:Ost is 68 hours, Since RO2 came out, I have played 71 hours.

An additional 35 hours in the Beta.

And it hasn't even been that long since RO2 came out.

I'm not speaking for anybody else but myself..... but I wasn't such an RO1 fan as most in here and I'm glad RO2 came along and took RO and made it better. I tried to play RO1 as much as possible, but it was just lacking something I missed from the mod. I can't even put my finger on exactly what it is in RO2 that reminds me so much of the Mod, as there's so many things.... but with better graphics, more immersion, improved movement.... and on and on.

I basically gave RO1 a pass and started looking forward to RO2.

Rep me down all anybody wants, I don't care, cuz I actually enjoy the game and I actually feel it's an improvement with piles more content to be stuffed into it as time goes on.

RO2Nemesis.jpg


^ See, Picard is RO:Ost and Shinzon is RO2..... the younger, newer RO.... those green veins are just the bugs & glitches still to be fixed up..... But once RO2 extracts everything out of RO1 and leaves it to die, RO2 will be flawless and shall rule the world with an iron fist!
 
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I disagree. Paying for "potential" is like ordering a burger and being served the ingredients. The games industry is the only (entertainment) one in which authors can get away with selling "potential". Bugs and issues are a reality of software development, no game will ever be 100% bug-free. I (and most people into games, I'd wager) understand that. But I think it's far healthier in the long run for the consumer to demand a high-quality, polished experience from the get-go, regardless of who's selling it. Don't mantain a standard for Blizzard and other for Tripwire (for example). That way, standards in general keep on rising, and sloppy developers are not given any quarter.

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Games I paid for based on potential alone despite most of the content not being finished:

Mount & Blade - Bought into around beta 0.7xx. Only two factions, most of the towns weren't modeled, balance was ****ed (anyone remember the Black Khergits?), and the game crashed every few hours. It's also the best RPG I've played in the last 5 years.

Lugaru/Overgrowth - Bought and enjoyed Lugaru (after it was done), picked up Overgrowth based on potential. One of the most interesting and fluid hand-to-hand combat systems I've ever seen. Very impressive work for such a small company.

Minecraft - Bought it back when survival mode didn't even exist, hitting the wrong block caused the entire map to flood, and crafting was still in the works.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that I'd -much- rather pay a developer to finish an interesting idea and fun gameplay mechanics than for a polished work that is -technically- correct but doesn't have a single new or interesting idea in it's entire execution.

'life cycle'? Games make 90%+ of their profit in the two weeks after release. It would make much more sense for them to pull out. It wont make a difference as they can still have sales for it.

Because they're disposable piles of uninteresting slime that sell based on hype and marketing that the developers abandon as soon as they can justify it to move on and re-release it with a new level pack and some new weapons the next year. That's not TWI's business model. TWI makes most of it's profit -well- after release, as sales and free weekends draw in a lot of customers that have never heard of the game before, or who wouldn't pay full price to try out a small indie title.

It doesn't make sense for TWI to pull out. It's their meal ticket. They aren't a big 200+ person developer who can crank out a new title every 18 months. It's taken them 6 years to get RO2 to the state it's in RIGHT NOW. If they abandon it and try to move on to their next work, they're going to run out of money pretty fast.

They -had- to release RO2. It's been in development hell for the last 6 years, and they can only milk RO1 and KF so much. So, despite most of the content being missing, they had to deliver something to their customers. It is an unfinished work, but like the developers I listed above, they're going to keep polishing it up until it's got a mirror shine. As it gets more and more polish, more and more people are going to be drawn to it, or come back from other, less interesting titles and the community will rebuild itself. It's -exactly- what happened with RO1, it's -exactly- what happened with KF. Buggy, crappy launches followed by years of diligent polish based on community input and a strong sense of customer loyalty (that has apparently flown out the window) that has produced some of the finest niche games of our time. Why would RO2 be any different? A marginally bigger budget? A miniscule advertising campaign (as opposed to the non-existant ones for RO1 and KF?). The fact that they're trying to put on big-boy pants and take on the heavy hitters despite the fact that they're still a tiny indie?

Really interesting. While RO2 was a bigger 'success' the game will most likely be dead in a few months.

Using this as a tl;dr for the above textwalls:

RO2 is not going to die because TWI can't AFFORD for it to die. This is the same business model they've been using since they started SELLING their work. Why is this so surprising to people?

I hardly consider myself an RO vet, but the reason I didn't get into it until late in it's life cycle was because I heard from a -lot- of people that it was a buggy, crappy mess when it was released, and I ignored it. I later bought it because:

a) It was on sale
b) The same people that panned it as a buggy, crappy mess a year or two earlier started ranting about how it was a really deep, interesting, immersive shooter that was leagues better than anything else out there.

From my experience, this is nothing new for TWI, and I intend to stick by RO2 until it reaches the level of polish it deserves.
 
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When the game came out, i was pretty dissapointed by the bugs, i did not play it for over 1-2 months id say, but just now recently i just thought about starting the game up and playing a bit, i noticed a nice performance increase and all the stuff worked that did not before, and got hooked.

I believe that the game will get more players in the long run when people start realizing how good it actually is compared to others like mw3,

Keep up the good work twi.
 
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So the game needs to let players enter ADS instantly right after full sprint, reload a rifle in 3 seconds (pulling ammo out of his sleeve), aim with 100% precision while exhausted, be immune to pain, bandage in 2 seconds, suffer no effects from getting shot and give him a fantasy weapon just to balance the addition of bullet penetration?
Funny that the RO2 defenders always avoid talking about these "features", which are my main issues with the game. Just like the mod, eh?
 
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When you play with a group that uses team work, VOIP and tactics, the game shines. Its not to be played as run-n-gun, although I suspect it has a little bit of that to stay up with the "other" shooters that are fast and furious!


I understand about Realism vs Gameplay. This game is better when it has more Realism. Its why I still play it. I don't run n gun well. It gets confusing to me and I get shot way too much to have any fun.

I suspect many players DID want this game to be competitve with the "other games" and as the numbers began to fade, the realities vs the potentials were too much to handle. But I have faith this game will become better as TWI adds content and other stuff. I am willing to wait.
 
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Wut

Wut

That feel when devs use a logical fallacy (Correlation = Causation) to explain why their game is losing players.

That's a bad feel.

To clarify, just because Battlefield 3 came out at the same time as you lost more players, does not mean Battlefield 3 was the cause.

There's nothing wrong with speculating as to why your game is losing players, but when there's kilometers of people on the forums going off on giant "let's be constructive and help devs!" rants and "this isn't RO, this is arcadey!" bits, it's more likely that the game is responsible for it's own loss of players.

It makes more sense to speculate that the player base for a "full time" Battlefield 3 player would be different than your player base. That is to say that people who want to play a realism based game don't run to a game where they model their weapons off airsoft guns and push day one DLC.

It seems more that the new target audience didn't take to the game very well, and your old target audience or base is having a hard time liking your game.
 
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. The games industry is the only (entertainment) one in which authors can get away with selling "potential"

I'm just going to bust out this one statement and nitpick it..
Obviously you sir have not watched any mainstream (American anyway) Television programming.. or seen many Movies lately.

A Movie Trailer that is cut to only show awesome is exactly that.. selling Potential.. you don't see the other 87 minutes of crappy editing or bad dialog.. but if you go see it in a theatre, you are still paying for the Potential for it to be awesome.. sometimes it is. sometimes it's not.


I'd argue that the Entertainment industry is epitome of selling potential.. that and the Men's Cologne market
 
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