Hey Ramm-Jaeger what happened to hero status & MkB42H/AVT40 being rare weapons?

[wokelly]

As for the MKb
The STG in RO1 was a great and versitile weapon. but easy to use it was not. For one many of the maps were larger in RO1 and it was a slightly harder weapon to control. So range in maps coupled with its wield-ability (or rather the challenge of it) toned down its over use/over abuse slightly. Long range shots required careful placement and a longer time because RO1 had fatigue and sway. It also never had a stupid scope that nerfs it to the point of practically uselessness nor did it have a Bayo that, at least at the date of this thread, goes the complete opposite way and allows you to have one of the most OP attacks in the game... Melee.. Seeing as how close quarter hip shooting is in the trash. (It's easier for me to kill someone from 50 yards than it is from 50 inches!)
I mean the only thing its missing a giant 'WTF?" sticker on the side.

Not just that, in RO1 there were never STG44s except on maps based in the time frame where they actually saw service and were scaled to a historic amount. In RO2, not only where STGs most probably never in Stalingrad, they were never supplied on a scale of 4-5 per 34 people. People WOULD complain in RO1 if the STGs were in 1941 maps or in rediculous numbers.

 

[dogbadger]

This is the crap I'm talking about... You don't get it man you're completely lost as to why people are upset in the first place... Its not about getting better with the Ppsh... its about being realistic, and historically correct....

Not necessarily, for some it's also about the affect on gameplay that these weapons are having.
I don't disagree with you but it's worth pointing out there are other issues that compound this one.

 

[Karnatakapunk]

i understaind the fact of twi wanting to put mkb on the game, it is only the most icon gun of ww2.
i also can understaind that they have the argument to put it in, if it still was the little possibility it was there at least one.
But i think if they made it very very especial, for just one guy on the server to unlock it by his best teamwork points on the team, it would be pretty awsome, not only for more "realistic" load outs, but to gamebalance issues and the fact that everybody would team work just to put his hands on it sometimes, and when they had it, it would be very especial!

 

[shadowmoses]

Not necessarily, for some it's also about the affect on gameplay that these weapons are having.
I don't disagree with you but it's worth pointing out there are other issues that compound this one.

If you make the game with all the accuracies that you absolutely can, you will notice that the game levels its self. There is a reason that the Russians and Germans had standstills and a back and forth pushing during the war.

 

[Leo4444]

i understaind the fact of twi wanting to put mkb on the game, it is only the most icon gun of ww2.
i also can understaind that they have the argument to put it in, if it still was the little possibility it was there at least one.
But i think if they made it very very especial, for just one guy on the server to unlock it by his best teamwork points on the team, it would be pretty awsome, not only for more "realistic" load outs, but to gamebalance issues and the fact that everybody would team work just to put his hands on it sometimes, and when they had it, it would be very especial!

what? most people dont even know about the mkb.

 

[Karnatakapunk]

What most people dont know is that mkb(42) is the prototype gun for Mp44.
Mp44 is one of the most iconic guns in the world, and is a true assault rifle, trip wire wanted to put it on the game, and they put mkb42 instead of mp44, because there was a chance (remote) of mkb42 be in stalingrad.
I think this ideia good, because there was that possibility, but being a rare gun, it had to be rare on game

 

[shadowmoses]

but being a rare gun, it had to be rare on game

Which it certainly is not

 

[Nikita]

What most people dont know is that mkb(42) is the prototype gun for Mp44.
Mp44 is one of the most iconic guns in the world, and is a true assault rifle, trip wire wanted to put it on the game, and they put mkb42 instead of mp44, because there was a chance (remote) of mkb42 be in stalingrad.
I think this ideia good, because there was that possibility, but being a rare gun, it had to be rare on game

Most iconic weapons of World War II:

Germany: Mauser k98, MP-40, MG42, MG34
Great Britain: Lee-Enfield No. 4 Mark I, Bren light machine gun
Japan: Type 38 rifle, Type 99 rifle, Nambu pistol, officer's sword.
Soviet Union: Mosin-Nagant 91/30, PPSh-41 submachine gun, Maxim PM 1910.
United States: M1 Garand, M1 Thompson

Those are the weapons you see in newsreels, on propaganda posters, in countless volumes of photographs... those are the weapons that almost have a meaning of their own through the history and culture of the times.:IS2:

Hmmm... well what do you know? These weapons also happen to be some of the most common small arms fielded by each respective side! How about that!?

So no--the StG-44, and much less the Mkb--are in no way the most iconic weapons of the Second World War. The closest accurate statement you could make is that the AK-47 is the most iconic weapon of the later half of the 20th century. The category of iconic infantry weapons of World War Two, however, is the exclusive province of the rifle, the submachine gun, and the light machine gun. The Mkb, however, IS the most iconic weapon of Red Orchestra 2.

I completely agree with Mad Mac. I do like RO2, and some aspects of the gameplay are indeed more refined and natural than Ostfront, but I really want to love, not just like the game.

And yes, it is incongruous that a game that lavishes such astonishing detail on maps (honestly the most beautiful and haunting I've ever seen in any FPS), weapons (just watch the DP28 magazine rotate as you fire), sound (listen to your comrade choke out a last "Za Rodi... za... za ro--" before succumbing to the bullet in his belly), music (an anguished choir breaking into a crescendo as you climb the stairs of the Univermag behind three unsuspecting foes), and yes, a great effort towards realism in many, many aspects of the game from bullet penetration to ballistics to uniforms to propaganda posters... :IS2::IS2::IS2:

...can backtrack on all of that effort by...

you fill in the blanks.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

nikita, Hitler himself renamed the mp43 to the Sturm Gewehr 44. And capatalized heavily on it for propaganda uses later in the war. Other then that, all quite true.

 

[grothesj2]

what? most people dont even know about the mkb.

No kidding. It is an obscure gun with a very limited production run when compared to the standard weapons.

 

[Limz]

Some of these complaints feel ridiculous to a person new to the Red Orchestra series such as myself. There are a few questions that should be addressed before even tackling the alleged issue of the proliferation of prototype weapons. Such questions are along the lines of game balance, overall game flow, map interaction, and is it at all really relevant beyond personal tastes.

The proto-type weapons are not the best on the field, and you can compete perfectly well with a kar/nagant + mp40/ppsh. Personally, I avoid the mkb simply because I prefer my laser gun of a mp40 or the personal satisfaction of the kar. Balance wise it does not seem to make much of a difference at all; on the servers I play on rarely will you ever see a mkb 42 user be top 3.

People have yet to actually reveal these so-called game changing elements that the mkb introduces, the only thing that could be said is that having too many of that kind of weapon makes it subjectively feel 'bleh' (sentiments which I feel to be agreeable) and proliferation to a higher extent would bring in some new questions but with the current set up we have now it is hard to be convinced by any dissenting opinion.

 

[Rak]

The proto-type weapons are not the best on the field, and you can compete perfectly well with a kar/nagant + mp40/ppsh. Personally, I avoid the mkb simply because I prefer my laser gun of a mp40 or the personal satisfaction of the kar. Balance wise it does not seem to make much of a difference at all; on the servers I play on rarely will you ever see a mkb 42 user be top 3.

That's the problem. Some "New" players don't really care about the game being authentic, all weapons are just "weapons", the only problem is if they are balanced or not, and if they think they are balanced they come to forums and flame the people think otherwise with posts basically saying "ADAPT OR DIE NUBZ, GAME IS FINE".

 

[wooki]

Most iconic weapons of World War II:

Germany: Mauser k98, MP-40, MG42, MG34
Great Britain: Lee-Enfield No. 4 Mark I, Bren light machine gun
Japan: Type 38 rifle, Type 99 rifle, Nambu pistol, officer's sword.
Soviet Union: Mosin-Nagant 91/30, PPSh-41 submachine gun, Maxim PM 1910.
United States: M1 Garand, M1 Thompson

This. I remember already in MoHAA how I reacted to the StG. It felt too much like a modern day weapon and broke the authentic (for its time) ww2 feel of the game. No matter how authentic it is in later parts of the war(s) it really doesn't fit my (emphasis on my) ideal of how a ww2 battlefield looks.
Assault rifles belong in modern day shooters and their presence in ww2 is just boring.

Not a gamebreaker for me though. I just dislike them and wont use them.
(Except when being stuck in a cqc-situation with a boltrifle and see it lying on the floor. And still I feel shame for wielding it )

 

[Piscator]

I think there is no hope other than mods

 

[madosopia]

This. I remember already in MoHAA how I reacted to the StG. It felt too much like a modern day weapon and broke the authentic (for its time) ww2 feel of the game. No matter how authentic it is in later parts of the war(s) it really doesn't fit my (emphasis on my) ideal of how a ww2 battlefield looks.
Assault rifles belong in modern day shooters and their presence in ww2 is just boring.

I'm sorry, but reality won't magically change depending on your perception of what it ought to be :/ Should you leave out the, by WW2-standards, ultra-modern Panther tank just because it doesn't "feel" like a WW2-tank?

(not saying that the MkB42 at Stalingrad is "reality", but the StG as a common weapon during 1944-1945 was)

 

[Apos]

That's the problem. Some "New" players don't really care about the game being authentic, all weapons are just "weapons", the only problem is if they are balanced or not, and if they think they are balanced they come to forums and flame the people think otherwise with posts basically saying "ADAPT OR DIE NUBZ, GAME IS FINE".

That's totally true, friend of mine plays only as Axis Assault because he wants to unlock that "german AK"

 

[Verluste]

That's totally true, friend of mine plays only as Axis Assault because he wants to unlock that "german AK"

Thats the public RO1 veterans are really, really not very fond of.
And TWI just lets it happen by making a pie for them basically.

 

[Limz]

That's the problem. Some "New" players don't really care about the game being authentic, all weapons are just "weapons", the only problem is if they are balanced or not, and if they think they are balanced they come to forums and flame the people think otherwise with posts basically saying "ADAPT OR DIE NUBZ, GAME IS FINE".

Authenticity is not a one dimensional thing and people should not approach it that way. The truth is people have specific grudges and preferences when it comes to authenticity vs necessity vs whatever else. Quite frankly, for many of the newer players such as myself it is authentic enough to the point where it is difficult to accept other arguments as reasonable while it may be a game breaker for you.

However, that being said, these so-called 'new' players are not monolithic either and have concerns of their own. For instance, while I don't really care about 'hardcore authenticity' I do very much care for balanced game play (in terms of maps, mechanics etc. etc. for both sides) and the competitive aspect of it (though I will probably never compete no matter how good I get).

I also do not think that saying 'adapt or die nubz' is flaming at all but a reality in terms of demographics. Ultimately, it'll be TWI to decide the direction and what audience they wish to capture. If they wish to lean towards people who happen to not really care about absolute authenticity then the fact of the matter is either roll with it using mods or don't play at all. Saying that the game is fine is not trolling or flaming especially if it comes from the targeted audience because, guess what? The game is absolutely fine (bugs aside) for them and they are TWI's selected crowd.

If that is the case then it should be the old guard that should rephrase their argument as "Our preferences are this and that" not "Your game is broken because it doesn't include X Y Z and has proliferation of D! " Not only does such an attitude draw combative lines and encourages trolling but it clouds meaningful dialogue that could be otherwise had.

I assume that we've all read the book 'The Selfish Gene' and can all come to the same conclusion that a cooperative stance rather than a divisive hard-line stance is better for everyone.

 

[greenlemonade]

One thing you can do is always pick German assault and choose the MP40. That's one less MKB in the mix.

Because the German team already has less Assault roles, this is easy.



Other than that, be patient guys. The number of MKBs has reduced 3 times since this thread started:
1. Limited to Assault only as TW intended
2. German Assault roles reduced slightly
3. Stats fixed and reset so non-DDE players had to earn them.



And a big one is coming according to Yoshiro:
4. Server option to make Prototypes Hero only.

Another one I'd love to see is:
5. Default weapon selection is always the most common despite unlocks. (players would have to click on the MKB to use it. This would make load-outs more realistic without taking away unlocks or player choice.

So please enjoy the game and wait it out.

 

[Piscator]

One thing you can do is always pick German assault and choose the MP40. That's one less MKB in the mix.

Because the German team already has less Assault roles, this is easy.



Other than that, be patient guys. The number of MKBs has reduced 3 times since this thread started:
1. Limited to Assault only as TW intended
2. German Assault roles reduced slightly
3. Stats fixed and reset so non-DDE players had to earn them.



And a big one is coming according to Yoshiro:
4. Server option to make Prototypes Hero only.

Another one I'd love to see is:
5. Default weapon selection is always the most common despite unlocks. (players would have to click on the MKB to use it. This would make load-outs more realistic without taking away unlocks or player choice.

So please enjoy the game and wait it out.

Yes thankfully that will come and point 4 is really good!
999 posts! and TWI moving our way...maybe we do matter despite being 0.01%!.