I've read through a bit of the previous page's discussion.
I had a somewhat similar discussion with a friend of mine about the use of force for SWAT teams.
I told him that they were most likely to cuff up everyone, even the hostages. For some reason he got furious about the idea that he, as an innocent, would be forced down to the ground and be handcuffed like he was one of the hostage takers.
And ofcourse, to some extent, that is understandable: he didnt do anything wrong yet gets the same treatment. In that way it's relateable to the discussion going on here.
However, how would SWAT be able to know who actually is a hostage and a hostage taker? Perhaps there were associates hidden within the group of hostages, acting like them yet carrying a concealed weapon used to scare the hostages into cooperation?
As such, everybody needs to be taken down (not taken down as in being shot to death, but taken down to be arrested) with the possibility of them being agressors, even if they aren't.
You just can't know, and it is for the safety of both the officers as everybody else involved with the situation.
Imo the same thing applies to riots and unruly crowds.
The rioters don't wear a uniform, they cannot be distinguished from the rest of the crowd. If you are in a group that contains people who are throwing bottles, rocks and other such stuff at police officers, you are associated with that group. It's not more than logical that you are.
In the heat of the moment, how is anybody to know any different?
Sure it sucks, but perhaps you should have picked who you hang with a bit more carefully. Nobody can really know ofcourse but there are signs if you can read them in some people.
And imo anybody can detect when a protest is taking a turn for the worst and get the hell out if you don't like where things are going.
The use of force by police can be debated at length too imho.
If they are outnumbered, I could not hold it against them to use a bit more force than perhaps might have been entirely neccesary.
It's called scare tactics. The crowd will know that you might be few, but you will bite back hard, and that despite your numbers you are a force to be reckoned with.
The Dutch riot police (ME) will most likely use water cannons, charges and perhaps rubber bullets but only when taken to the extreme. You won't see shots being fired any time soon afaik.
They have real life scenario training every once in a while wherein they can practice their tactics and such against a group of volunteer 'rioters'.
As such a volunteer, I've been told you can do pretty much anything you want. You can be as violent as you dare, breaking stuff, throwing stuff at the ME, but if you do you can still count on a severe beatdown.
They'll take you down with the same force they would use in a real situation.
Also, I just have to respond to Grabbed:
Even if he was a legitimate arms dealer who was completely oblivious to the culprits intentions?
How could you possibly sell weapons to a person of whom you don't know anything about their intentions?
That is exactly the thing they should check (history of violence, idealistic associations etc.) before they should allow anybody to have a deadly weapon.