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HoE: Remove spawn items completely?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Undedd Jester View Post
    I figure since HoE is the "hold onto your butts" mode, why not remove weapon spawns completely? Players already get alot of discount, and money management and actual tactics would suddenly become key to beating the game.
    I hate people who suicide to get weapons and cash, but unfortunately that is what happens. The problem with not spawning with a weapon is someone who joins late. The other players could give him cash, but if they are funneling money to the demo already or if they just gave their money to a player who joined earlier, then the new player could very well be a hindrance for a couple waves.

    I don't like it either, but it isn't an easy thing to fix.


    Originally posted by BenioX View Post
    How about just change the weapon spawns for lvl 5 and 6? What I mean is for example like this:
    Zerker lvl 5 -> Machete
    Zerker lvl 6 -> Axe
    Medic (both lvls no change)
    Sharpshooter lvl 5 -> deagle
    Sharpshooter lvl 6 -> dual deagle
    Commando lvl 5 -> Bullpup (no change)
    Commando lvl 6 -> M4
    Firebug lvl 5 -> Mac10
    Firebug lvl 6 -> Mac10 and/or Flamethrower (no kevlar)
    Support lvl 5 -> Shotty
    Support lvl 6 -> Combat Shotty
    Demolition lvl 5 -> M79
    Demolition lvl 6 -> M32
    The thread is about preventing spawn exploiting and your reply is to provide spawning players with even more expensive weapons to sell?



    Originally posted by Undedd Jester View Post
    Ofc the less extreme version of this idea is to say everyone gets a tier 2 item and thats it. e.g.
    Medic - Armour
    Support - Pump-action Shotgun
    Commando - Bullpup
    Sharpshooter - LAR
    Firebug - Mac-10
    Berserker - Axe
    Demo - ... double nades? M79 seems a bit generous compared to everyone else, then again I suppose the Demo does cost more money overall.
    My suggestion for weapon spawning is lvl 5 gets lowest tier 2 weapon and lvl 6 gets lowest tier 2 weapon and armor.



    Originally posted by vealck View Post
    Spawn with no weapons = everybody spawns as a beserker or sharpshooter due to bonuses for basic weapons. Also, people will farm money in other ways, like on damage healing.
    Late joiners get screwed that way.
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    • #17
      Originally posted by nutterbutter View Post
      The thread is about preventing spawn exploiting and your reply is to provide spawning players with even more expensive weapons to sell?
      I fail to see those are more xpensive weapons. Check again the original spawn weapons prices and then the newly suggested ones. Only demo and support I see maybe a bit by price are upper, but from the other hand those I suggested are weapons which aren't as "useful" as those they spawn with already, for example Hunting - typical Support has AA12 and Hunting loadout, noone uses Combat shotty really. Well, the demo originally has the pipes which they spawn with and put, then suicide and put even more. And well, I use LAW not M79/32 so I think it's not really something good for me in this suggestion is it?

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      • #18
        I've already suggested once to make spawn items cost nothing. This could be applied on HoE only. So you just couldn't raise any money for anything you get for free (this could be applied also on items spawned on the map).

        But from the other side, there are a lot of money on HoE even without exploiting. Currently I'm participating in KF tournament, where main rules are "1 player per perk" and "no suicide for money". And even with those rules in the end of wave 10 we get so much money so we can afford 3 demos fully equipped with pipes at PAT wave.
        KF-DarkZone released! Check it out...

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        • #19
          Originally posted by poosh View Post
          But from the other side, there are a lot of money on HoE even without exploiting. Currently I'm participating in KF tournament, where main rules are "1 player per perk" and "no suicide for money". And even with those rules in the end of wave 10 we get so much money so we can afford 3 demos fully equipped with pipes at PAT wave.
          Crap, so you made it past wave 10?
          Heh, you know how me and my team played... and of course I took all blames...

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          • #20
            Originally posted by BenioX View Post
            Crap, so you made it past wave 10?
            Heh, you know how me and my team played... and of course I took all blames...
            We would made it without any player death, if I'd noticed that stalker next to me and hadn't blown my *** up with M79 in wave 4
            KF-DarkZone released! Check it out...

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            • #21
              Wouldn't the simplest solution to prevent spawn selling be change it so players who die during the trader time don't get to respawn until the next wave is over?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by DarkFalz View Post
                Wouldn't the simplest solution to prevent spawn selling be change it so players who die during the trader time don't get to respawn until the next wave is over?
                Drop weapons outside trader, give all your cash to a friend and die with 1 zed left to go.
                You'll respawn next round, having (practically) lost the team no money, but with the same net gain.

                I like the idea about spawning weapons costing nothing though.
                Favourite classes: Sharp/support/demo (not a stupid demo don't worry).
                I don't like medics.
                Mostly play on HoE thesedays.

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                • #23
                  makes no sense to me

                  This whole thread makes no sense to me (i am NOT against it though). Not at all. I bet each one of You here plays HOE, and You are all successful. Since You all have skill, You don't need to suicide for money, and You and Your team can easily manage money You earn... so why would You be bothered if some glitchers did that? You are all above it.

                  I used to hate powerlevelers, but that changed - **** them. Even when they get lvl6, they have no skill/clue how play the game - all they have is golden ****.

                  If You need challenge, then spawn any class You want - use lvl6 weapon and dont sell it, or don't use it at all, and simply throw away. And if You are on Your own server or play with friends - just kick the exploiter - simple as that. No need for such changes. However if that got introduced, it could teach ppl to save ammo - and that would be sooooooo good!!! (I passionately loathe ammo wasters).
                  Last edited by swenor27; 04-26-2012, 07:10 PM.
                  FRAG'EM ALL

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by poosh View Post
                    I've already suggested once to make spawn items cost nothing. This could be applied on HoE only. So you just couldn't raise any money for anything you get for free (this could be applied also on items spawned on the map).
                    Even if spawn items cost nothing they are still valuable. Give an xbow or m79 to other members of the group.


                    Originally posted by swenor27 View Post
                    I used to hate powerlevelers, but that changed - **** them. Even when they get lvl6, they have no skill/clue how play the game - all they have is golden ****.
                    I just ignore it as well. Same with welding. I don't like it, but just like the players who suicide to cheat, I don't say anything.


                    Originally posted by Althamus View Post
                    Drop weapons outside trader, give all your cash to a friend and die with 1 zed left to go.
                    You'll respawn next round, having (practically) lost the team no money, but with the same net gain.
                    Yup. Players will always think of a way to take advantage of the situation.
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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by nutterbutter View Post
                      Even if spawn items cost nothing they are still valuable. Give an xbow or m79 to other members of the group.
                      They're valuable, but to a limited extent. Apart from the sharp and Xbow, most of the weapons you spawn with either won't be used in a player's ideal loadout, or will be the smaller weapon in the ideal loadout (AK/SCAR, M79/M32 etc), so having that weapon will mean you'll still need to save up to buy the bigger weapon.
                      And if it were free, it removes the ability to suicide/sell, which IMHO is the bigger issue, since with that 'exploit', you can buy your ideal kit in maybe 2-3 waves without killing a single zed.
                      Favourite classes: Sharp/support/demo (not a stupid demo don't worry).
                      I don't like medics.
                      Mostly play on HoE thesedays.

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                      • #26
                        Spawned weapons cost nothing, raise starting cash after wave 1 to 300, no cash refill or any weapons for those who die during trader time.

                        That way: late joiners are not screwed, no cash / weapon exploiting.

                        Wouldn't the simplest solution to prevent spawn selling be change it so players who die during the trader time don't get to respawn until the next wave is over?
                        Players still could just reconnect the server instead of killing themselves.

                        sigpic

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                        • #27
                          You could have it, if a coder here can figure out how, that you only get one spawning weapon per perk per match.

                          I.e. you spawn as ****shooter for the Xbow, then you sell that and suicide. Congratulations, you've just spawned with nothing!
                          203.217.24.135 - [}{] Killing Floor Legion server
                          sigpic

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by CandleJack View Post
                            Congratulations, you've just spawned with nothing!
                            That is so my new line when I see lvl 0-4 spawn (JK)

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by CandleJack View Post
                              You could have it, if a coder here can figure out how, that you only get one spawning weapon per perk per match.

                              I.e. you spawn as ****shooter for the Xbow, then you sell that and suicide. Congratulations, you've just spawned with nothing!
                              This is almost a genius idea, except..they can simply reconnect at the end of a wave and be given a new player instance, so tracking if they've already spawned with a weapon that game wouldn't be feasible.

                              Hypothetically, if you could track it (via steam ID maybe?) they would find another way around it.
                              Spoof ID. Use another account. Whatever.

                              ...Or we could just leave it how it is, not gaining much.
                              The reason suiciding works is because the players already have a certain level of skill to play through the wave. They could do the same without spawn suiciding, so where is the issue?
                              Personally, I occasionally spawn suicide if I want to use the combat shotgun for example, because I feel it is over-priced.
                              I could play through the wave with the pump shotgun instead, but I want the over-priced combat shotgun for fun. It looks nice.

                              The same principle applies for just about any reason to spawn suicide.

                              Could also spawn suicide as demo or do the Handcannon trick to buy a lot of pipes so the demo can make a pretty picture with pipes for the patriarch wave.
                              For fun.
                              In my HoE experience, there is enough money in the game for several demos to stack the maximum amount of pipes to be useful (which is 14) on the pat wave without suiciding.

                              It is a luxury method some people use to enjoy the game more.
                              You don't have to use it. Patching it won't solve a fatal problem with the game. They can successfully complete HoE games without suiciding.

                              Consider the following chains of events:
                              • Patch it -> They find a way around it, or move on to something else -> People complete HoE games
                              • Don't patch it -> Your life doesn't end -> People complete HoE games
                              Now brb, enjoying some more KF.
                              [url=youtube.com/user/0Raz0r][img]http://s.ytimg.com/yt/favicon-vflZlzSbU.ico[/img][/url] ~1600h

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                              • #30
                                i am very much against spawning with nothing at all, however i would not be entirely opposed to only spawning one set per wave if you die for whatever reason, or not at all if you suicide. i personally never suicide, but i am guilty of perk switching to start as zerker with xbow.
                                [URL="http://www.youtube.com/user/calltheambalamps/videos"][IMG]http://s.ytimg.com/yt/favicon-vflZlzSbU.ico[/IMG][/URL] DOSH RULES EVERYTHING AROUND ME

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