ANOTHER how to improve KF thread

[BenioX]

I am pretty sure you remember those 2 threads:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=76227
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=78226

I want to assure you guys though, I did NOT intend to insult anyone but those, who make the KF game into playground where nasty, rude children make mess and throw bad names randomly and hurt anyone who's nearby.
Now to the point: Those threads were about my experiences with Killing Floor and my questions on how to improve, how to make KF enjoyable, how to handle those kinds of players. I partially got the answers, and I am thankful for them, although, they didn't fully answer my questions and there were some people who started throwing insults at me and others, shame on you guys for that. Now, to the part of thread where I finally get to the point: how to improve KF. I'd love to start off with this - I am pretty certain even if 100% of community agrees with me, TWI won't change KF the way we want it, but hell, I just love to telling what I think, forum is to share opinions after all and this is General Discussion part of Killing Floor forum.

1. Remember the thread about griefers? In end we came to conclusion that or we shouldn't play at ff servers, or admins of servers should be 24h present, or use mutator which mirrors friendly fire. All of these have pros and cons, of course. I was thinking about them, and in end I came up with my own idea how to improve that: Simply make friendly fire servers AUTHOMATICALY have implemented auto-vote, where the person who got killed is FORCED to vote to kick the person who killed him, or to not kick (F1 and F2?), and that ONE vote would be enough to kick. Also, the person who does the griefing could simply always leave like 1-10 hp left to the person and he'd die from mutants. How to overcome that? Make also let's say 100-200 hp damage dealt also force a kick vote where the person who got damaged the most determinates the result of voting. Now, another problem is mostly that those people who would grief would rejoin quickly before gets kicked. How to overcome that? Simply, Make people who leave server AND get voted off still kicked. ALSO, multiple kicks for griefing, let's say, 5, would authomatically result in BAN

2. Another problem here, in KF, other than Griefers, I found mic-spammers. Simple solution - Mute option. I Never found it in KF yet, at least not option which mutes specific player.

3. Little problem, yet annoying, is that microphones in KF are with lowered volume, and I got hearing problems, so especially I would need this fix, double the max volume of microphones allowed in KF

4. The latest thread which offended many for some reason - players who call names, grief other way than killing off players with friendly fire and packs of players who act like a$$holes - leaving server isn't always best option, especially if you want to play specific map, with specific mutators and specific difficulty plus with decent ping. Fixes here would be reaaally hard to find, yet I came up with some. Today I played again at that server, and this time I am not gonna say nationality of the person who was being a$$hole, but not French, was playing as medic, but didn't heal anyone, at the same time some other player from same nationality was playing as support and was using flamethrowers (and since I was firebug it was extra annoying to me) - and well, when all we died (how could we survive with that team?) the medic dude asked me how old I am, so I answered the real age of mine - 20, then he answered he's 10. Here I came up with the idea how we could fix the problem with such people like him. Most of those people who act like a$$es most likely are kids. So, here is my idea: Put age restrictions between servers - make servers both for kids and for adults. Difficulty level isn't really the restriction, and about it I will answer in my next point

5. So, level restrictions... it's been discussed for loooong before... and I bet everyone agrees - there should be level restrictions for servers, like for example lvl 0 shouldn't be allowed at normal + difficulties. Been mutators and such done, but most servers don't run them, and it should be TWI which made it. Also, it should be set from beginning for new-commers to Beginner difficulty so they don't accidently join HoE for example.

6. Vote abuses - so many people abuse kick-voting and map-voting, and here I came up with an idea - kick-voting should not be allowed, unless the griefing ones from point 1. The map-voting abuse is easy to overcome, simply make it not possible to vote in mid-game, or make only 100% votes count, as default and ONLY possible way

7. Wrong perk weapons - some people, especially lvl 0-2, take wrong weapon sets - I understand off-perk weapons being included in sets where you use perked weapons, or medic with xbow and deagles for Patriarch wave, but I don't understand commandos with flamethrower, firebugs with axe and M14 and so on. Now, how to make people realise which weapons are theirs? Icons in shop don't seem to ring a bell. Server perks seems to have the solution - the weapons are cathegorised under perks, and that is what should be done

So far those are the things I came up with which could be fixed, but there are more things which'd need fix and I didn't find solutions yet so I'm not telling about them yet, but I may edit later to add those.

Please, also tell me what you think about those solutions and maybe other problems you see and may know the fix

 

[Benjamin]

Another thread trying to gain popularity...

I don't think we'll be seeing any major changes since it's already reached the peak of its life cycle.

 

[BenioX]

Another thread trying to gain popularity...

I don't think we'll be seeing any major changes since it's already reached the peak of its life cycle.

Not trying to gain anything, as you know this forum isn't about fame but about Killing Floor, and if you read what I wrote you'd know I didn't even expect changes or anything, but it's GENERAL DISCUSSION and we DISCUSS stuff here, that's exactly why I made this thread.

 

[Gartley]

Education not exclusion.

 

[nutterbutter]

In life you need to deal with people. The quality of your life will generally depend on how well you deal with others.

 

[BenioX]

Education not exclusion.

I didn't get what you both guys meant

In life you need to deal with people. The quality of your life will generally depend on how well you deal with others.

And what does this have to do with it? KF is not real life, so quality of my life has nothing to do with it.

 

[nutterbutter]

And what does this have to do with it? KF is not real life, so quality of my life has nothing to do with it.

Keep thinking that. No way you stay this self-absorbed your entire life.

 

[slavek]

1. Remember the thread about griefers? In end we came to conclusion that or we shouldn't play at ff servers, or admins of servers should be 24h present, or use mutator which mirrors friendly fire. All of these have pros and cons, of course. I was thinking about them, and in end I came up with my own idea how to improve that: Simply make friendly fire servers AUTHOMATICALY have implemented auto-vote, where the person who got killed is FORCED to vote to kick the person who killed him, or to not kick (F1 and F2?), and that ONE vote would be enough to kick. Also, the person who does the griefing could simply always leave like 1-10 hp left to the person and he'd die from mutants. How to overcome that? Make also let's say 100-200 hp damage dealt also force a kick vote where the person who got damaged the most determinates the result of voting. Now, another problem is mostly that those people who would grief would rejoin quickly before gets kicked. How to overcome that? Simply, Make people who leave server AND get voted off still kicked. ALSO, multiple kicks for griefing, let's say, 5, would authomatically result in BAN

The best anti greif would be an active admin. If someone cares about the quality of their server, it would be wise to have some staff or a way for players to contact you to deal with rule breakers. Some other measure such as recording players Team kills per hour even if they log off would be nice but I doubt FF servers are on the priority list. Maybe make an ideas and suggestions thread for this if it should be pursued further.

2. Another problem here, in KF, other than Griefers, I found mic-spammers. Simple solution - Mute option. I Never found it in KF yet, at least not option which mutes specific player.

ESC > Communication > Mut player you want.

3. Little problem, yet annoying, is that microphones in KF are with lowered volume, and I got hearing problems, so especially I would need this fix, double the max volume of microphones allowed in KF

Not a true solution but might help. Raise your over all sound up and lower the KF Music/Game play sounds.

Put age restrictions between servers - make servers both for kids and for adults. Difficulty level isn't really the restriction, and about it I will answer in my next point

Maturity does not necessarily come with age. You can be 12 years old and be mature or you can be a 35 year old moron who always gets his teeth knocked in for being a drunken asshat. Also how would you verify age on the internet.

5. So, level restrictions... it's been discussed for loooong before... and I bet everyone agrees - there should be level restrictions for servers, like for example lvl 0 shouldn't be allowed at normal + difficulties. Been mutators and such done, but most servers don't run them, and it should be TWI which made it. Also, it should be set from beginning for new-commers to Beginner difficulty so they don't accidently join HoE for example.

There have been a couple mutators made but they must be whitelisted which defeats their purpose until TWI whitelists them.


7. Wrong perk weapons - some people, especially lvl 0-2, take wrong weapon sets - I understand off-perk weapons being included in sets where you use perked weapons, or medic with xbow and deagles for Patriarch wave, but I don't understand commandos with flamethrower, firebugs with axe and M14 and so on. Now, how to make people realise which weapons are theirs? Icons in shop don't seem to ring a bell. Server perks seems to have the solution - the weapons are cathegorised under perks, and that is what should be done

Categorized weapon would help newcomers easily recognize weapons as they are usually the main reason for using off perked weapons that offer little.

Also know that if you must make a post or thread where you feel you have to put something like: "No Offense Intended" ; there is a good chance it is offensive in someway or may be interpreted as such(The French thread). It may be best to avoid topics that may be provocative and it will help with your reputation/image on the forums.

I'll leave this unlocked to discuss the game issues and civil posts between members, however please keep it clean, unnecessary pictures/insults and flaming will be moderated.

 

[Gartley]

Actually my comment was intended as a throw back to several threads where I pointed out my objections to adding filters. The classic example being low levels on hard servers. You should first attempt to educate them, not simple exclude them. And that goes for the OP as well.

"Voice is too quiet. Increase maximum voice volume allowed." Or, reduce other sounds and enable "Dampen game volume during VOIP"

 

[slavek]

I stand corrected, editing comment to reflect it.

 

[BenioX]

@Slavek:
1. About anti-griefing, I thought I stated it out, the active admin is a bit of issue as admins are not always active and sometimes they don't speak english so there's no way I could notify them well.
2. Thanks, man! I searched for this and haven't found, I gonna check in-game if that really is it
3. My volume is always max, and my KF game sounds are lowered anytime someone uses microphone, it's some option, yet I don't hear well like over 90% of players who play KF, yet when they talk to me through steam they are loud enough to hear them...
4. That is still thing I am thinking about... I know not all kids are same, but damn, mostly when player plays like asshat, it turns out it's just a kid... and I don't diss kids, don't take me wrong, it's just I think kids should play separate, that'd LOWER the chance of meeting an asshole, of course still there is a chance, but would be lower.
5. As I said: "Been mutators and such done, but most servers don't run them, and it should be TWI which made it." What you said is exactly same what I said, cept I added it should be TWI making it, but yeah, I'd not mind if it was just whitelisted, but on the other hand it's easy to avoid being kicked on those servers for low lvls if you switch perk later...
6. You skipped this one
7. Thanks, it seems this one was 100% precisive shot!

Overall: Thanks Slavek for your input! That's exactly that kind of answers I wanted see, not insults or off-topic stuff
And yeah, sorry for the way my other topics turned out to be, I said many times, no offence, I tried to be nice as much as possible, and I didn't mean to harm anyone. All I can say is I'm sorry for that, I wish I could change title...

Actually my comment was intended as a throw back to several threads where I pointed out my objections to adding filters. The classic example being low levels on hard servers. You should first attempt to educate them, not simple exclude them. And that goes for the OP as well.

"Voice is too quiet. Increase maximum voice volume allowed." Or, reduce other sounds and enable "Dampen game volume during VOIP"

Problem is most people don't take education, they don't listen...

And as for the voices being too quiet, I did reduce other sounds and enabled dampen game volume during VOIP, problem is it is still too quiet... as I said, I have problems with hearing, but when I talk through steam to others I hear perfectly fine, just in KF it's too low volume to me, it has too low limit.

 

[Dr_Mozg]

The best solution for all your problems is hosting a passworded listen server for playing with your friends on those maps, where you want to
On public servers you have to deal with other people, who happen to be a$$holes

 

[Dr_Mozg]

About number 7 (offper weapons).
All the weapons are categorized and have the perk-symbol near their name. People learn the game interface quite quickly. You could help them, instead of asking to TWI to change ingame interface...

 

[BenioX]

About number 7 (offper weapons).
All the weapons are categorized and have the perk-symbol near their name. People learn the game interface quite quickly. You could help them, instead of asking to TWI to change ingame interface...

Problem is most people don't take education, they don't listen...
.

Icons in shop don't seem to ring a bell.

And Quoting Slavek: Categorized weapon would help newcomers easily recognize weapons as they are usually the main reason for using off perked weapons that offer little.

Many people catch the thing quick enough, but always per like 5 newcommers catch it when they are lvl 3 or 4 which is a bit too late.

 

[Ghost1942]

Your ideas are generally not thought out very well. How would forcing a vote kick against a person team killing solve the issue? All this would cause is for the griefer to jump into the teammates fire, getting themselves killed, and then kicking that player from the game since it only requires that single punishment. Then to go deeper into your idea of having people get banned from the server after being kicked 5 times, well that just means rinse and repeat the above method and now said greifer just caused a honest player to be banned from the server. That sure seems like a great solution huh? The only real way to control griefing is to have an active admin, who responds to reports of griefers in the server. Obviously they cant do it every second but then can ban players who grief via honest players reporting such activities. If you cant handle such a thing they just simply dont play on servers that have friendly fire enabled.


About your audio problem, I dont know anyone who has had an issue with the VOIP system being quiet at all, the only thing it does suffer from is poor audio quality. With many different tests of the system there is most likely the fault that either the person who is talking to you over the mic has their setting badly setup and its sending the voice quietly, or your audio settings are just not setup correctly for such things.


Age restrictions just dont work. Its silly to even believe that it would work. How would you even enforce such a thing? I am pretty sure a 10 year old can get onto an adult site that has age restrictions, so what would stop them from getting into KF servers? Do you honestly believe that when it comes up asking for their age, that they would tell the truth so as not to be allowed to get into the server? Have you ever been on the internet? are you that naive?

I dont want to be a prick but you obviously dont even put research or anything into your ideas. It is really not at all difffcult to find the mute function for players, yet you feel the need to suggest it before even looking for more than a second? I know you want to help the KF community and game but from what I read, you dont do much good at that.

And on a side note, you say you play normal mode, and you have many many hours of play and all perks level 6, but you have problems with kids messing around with off perked weapons and such? Are you really that bad at the game even after playing so much? Normal difficulty becomes a joke for anyone who is even half decent at the game.

 

[Splatpope]

How to improve the TWI forums : AUTHOMATOTHICALLY ban b3n1oxXxe

 

[BenioX]

How to improve the TWI forums : AUTHOMATOTHICALLY ban b3n1oxXxe

Even better idea - authomatically ban Splatpope. That'd improve much more. Going offtopic and insulting others isn't the way you gain friends.

 

[Holy.Death]

Stop flame war at once or all participants will be properly rewarded.

 

[BenioX]

Your ideas are generally not thought out very well. How would forcing a vote kick against a person team killing solve the issue? All this would cause is for the griefer to jump into the teammates fire, getting themselves killed, and then kicking that player from the game since it only requires that single punishment. Then to go deeper into your idea of having people get banned from the server after being kicked 5 times, well that just means rinse and repeat the above method and now said greifer just caused a honest player to be banned from the server. That sure seems like a great solution huh? The only real way to control griefing is to have an active admin, who responds to reports of griefers in the server. Obviously they cant do it every second but then can ban players who grief via honest players reporting such activities. If you cant handle such a thing they just simply dont play on servers that have friendly fire enabled.


About your audio problem, I dont know anyone who has had an issue with the VOIP system being quiet at all, the only thing it does suffer from is poor audio quality. With many different tests of the system there is most likely the fault that either the person who is talking to you over the mic has their setting badly setup and its sending the voice quietly, or your audio settings are just not setup correctly for such things.


Age restrictions just dont work. Its silly to even believe that it would work. How would you even enforce such a thing? I am pretty sure a 10 year old can get onto an adult site that has age restrictions, so what would stop them from getting into KF servers? Do you honestly believe that when it comes up asking for their age, that they would tell the truth so as not to be allowed to get into the server? Have you ever been on the internet? are you that naive?

I dont want to be a prick but you obviously dont even put research or anything into your ideas. It is really not at all difffcult to find the mute function for players, yet you feel the need to suggest it before even looking for more than a second? I know you want to help the KF community and game but from what I read, you dont do much good at that.

And on a side note, you say you play normal mode, and you have many many hours of play and all perks level 6, but you have problems with kids messing around with off perked weapons and such? Are you really that bad at the game even after playing so much? Normal difficulty becomes a joke for anyone who is even half decent at the game.

Okay.. so from beginning...
I made 2 topics before, and got research running for looong time and what I came up with is result of like... 5 months of research (yes, I started it imidiatelly when I started playing Killing Floor once again) and well, as I said that's what I came up with, which means you guys may have different solutions, and this topic is exactly the question for solutions you guys have.
The forced kick seemed to work for me as far as I thought of Wolvenstein ET, mostly that system worked there... but after reading what you said, I think one more factor should be concidered - griefers getting under your gunfire. Remember, after player gets kicked he can't join until next map, so it's not likely same griefer will do it 5 times in row, but still possible. Now, thinking of it, admin should get also report on who got under who's fire, and if seems like it happened all 5 times to same players, that would ring a bell, and admin could un-ban the player and ban the other, but first, before banning the other, he should try to catch both players online and see how it really is. As I stated out - active admins are important and even maybe best solution, but what if the favourite server, with your favourite settings etc would have the admin not so active? That'd be a problem...
About audio problem - I checked all possible settings, and as I said - it's only in KF that it's too quiet, but now that you say quality is worse, maybe it's just the quality... but still, it's so weird that so many people got microphones too quiet in KF and not on steam if that is it...
As for age restrictions, yes, I see the problem here... but keeping dreaming isn't bad, is it...? For some reason still porn sites say don't get in unless you are 18, obviously doesn't work, BUT it warns still... maybe a warning at least would do?
"I dont want to be a prick but you obviously dont even put research or anything into your ideas" - 5 months of playing at 2 servers only, and checking how people play there is actualy something what I could call research being put into my ideas. As I said - my ideas are based upon my experience.
As for mute option - I swear I searched that over and over, asked people, and noone answered me, I haven't found, either, and even now that someone answered me today, I checked it in KF, and couldn't find. I think problem is I should do it only when I am in-game cuz only then it works, but then when could I do that while hordes of zeds are going to chew on me?
And yes, I do want to help, I do want to make KF better and friendlier, I got issues, I get mad really quick, and KF is only thing I can get relaxed with unless there's my girlfriend around, and she lives in Sweden while I live in Poland... so yeah, egoistic maybe, sorry for that, but I just want to have at least one thing to enjoy without having griefers, mic-spammers and such problems with that... but yeah, I do fail on helping, I am not that important, these days the power is in the hands of governments, famous and rich people...
And for that:

Spoiler!

"And on a side note, you say you play normal mode, and you have many many hours of play and all perks level 6, but you have problems with kids messing around with off perked weapons and such? Are you really that bad at the game even after playing so much? Normal difficulty becomes a joke for anyone who is even half decent at the game"

Have you ever played MISSION maps such as Resident Evil 1 Mansion? Have you ever played as coomando/support/firebug/demo/sharpshooter without ammo and kevlar because of griefers and people who steal weapons you'd need is that easy? Do you think that playing and at the same time explaining to at least one person how to play properly is easy with zeds spawning around? Mostly the problem isn't to win or survive, not at all - the problem is the quality of play - isn't it alot more enjoyable with people who play properly than with people who grief, steal ammo and weapons, play off-perk and die at every beginning of wave?

Well, so for the last thing I want to say for now is - yes, I am not pro, yes, I have problems with other players, yes, I have problems to apply to the people who play other way than it is intended to, yes, I have problems... I have issues, okay? But it doesn't mean I try to improve myself, but it'd make it easier if some of the issues got fixed...

Ah besides, I stopped playing at ff servers, not cuz I don't like them, but cuz I play story mode server lately as I said, and am writing down names of griefers and I plan to send them to admin, but damn, I am almost certain that the admin is one of them...

 

[Murphy]

1. make your own server
2. enforce all your little rules and stipulations and leave the rest of us alone
3. ???
4. profit