PC Anti-stuck doesn't work on "endlessly screaming" siren

[pokerman123]

After I played so many workshop maps , I met some zed get stuck out of the map. (Ex : Blow out of map by explosives)
If that zed is siren , she will endlessly scream and anti-stuck system never teleport her.

I recorded a video to explain the siren stuck bug.

Offline Server.
Map - Zed Landing
HoE

This is how anti-stuck works on other zeds , and it never work on "endlessly scream" sirens :

https://youtu.be/mjgUHdfXHQU

I chosen a beach where is out of the map. Zed can't find the path here.

(0:30) Anti-stuck system test : Scrake.
It works very well , scrake teleported to the spawn point after it stuck too long.

(1:35) Anti-stuck system test : Gorefast & Gorefiend.
It works , gorefast teleported to spawn point and gorefiend suicide and respawned at spawn point.

(2:35) Anti-stuck system test : Bloat.
Works, it suicided and respawn.

(3:25) Anti-stuck system test : Fleshpound
Fleshpound teleport to spawn point , anti-stuck system working.

(4:50) Anti-stuck system test : Siren attempt 1
Fail to make siren endlessly scream , anti-stuck teleport them to nearest terrain because I ghost into wall near the siren.

(5:50) Anti-stuck system test : Siren attempt 2
Siren start endlessly screaming , waiting.... waiting.... they still stuck on the beach?

This time the BUG has happened , the sirens never respawn ...... forever.

The anti-stuck system should work on every zeds.
Please fix it , we suffer "siren-stuck-forever" bug in many workshop maps for a while.

 

[pokerman123]

Resupply the video because my thread won't let me Edit.

 

[NED79]

This has been discussed several times but we still do not have a solution. Three recommendations that have been offered include:

1. Anti-stuck system that actually works (the current one does not always work)
2. Autokiill of last zed after a reasonable amount of time (1 minute?)
3. Add a command that would allow admins to kill any remaining zeds

To me, this would be a higher priority than providing emotes.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I love KF2. I have over 2300 hours of playtime. It's just frustrating that this problem has not been fixed.

 

[pokerman123]

I ever saw a map , the zeds include siren will lead to wrong path , caused them trying to "climb" the wall and keep "shaking" their body.

The zeds will suicide when "shaking" on the wall , siren either , she suicide because her body "shaking" on the wall.

So if siren will not scream when she is "immobile" , the anti-stuck will done on her.

To your question :

1. Definitely yes.
2. Autokill can solve problem, but it will lead to abuse on "autokill the last Fleshpound or Scrake" , people will kiting the last scrake/fleshpound and let system kill it. It also may kill the boss accidentally.
3. There's so many server admin is inactive , include my favorite server , server's admin sometimes very busy.

 

[Kittenmittens]

This isn't actually a bug. The community had very strong feelings about the siren respawning or teleporting. The siren does not respawn or teleport because of player feedback. They are the only zed that will not respawn even when stuck.

 

[pokerman123]

In the old feedbacks, players really hate siren teleport to their retreat path. I can understand.

https://www.reddit.com/r/killingfloo...e_teleporting/

https://www.reddit.com/r/killingfloo...dont_teleport/

And they listened. Now the zeds won't teleport to surprise the retreating players if they can find the path.

But how does siren scream in 0 sec delay when stuck?
The regular siren will have 2 sec cooldown can't scream after she finished one scream.

Is that a player feedback too? For...

I still hope she never stuck forever. As bloat and husk, they are walking slow too, but they can respawn when stuck.
Because if they met the siren stuck out of map forever, they need to give up the map and play next map. That's not worthy.

 

[®omano]

Maybe because it is stuck, it is bugged don't you think? being stuck is not normal behavior for zeds, so that may be another topic for another bug report. But maybe if it is stuck because of explosives like you describe, it will always be reachable.... so what you say would not be valid (especially now we have zeds icons to find last zeds). Sure maybe in one case out of 1000 you will never be able to reach the stuck zed but I never saw that honestly (OK I did but on a custom map because zed spawned in mysterious area)

 

[pokerman123]

Maybe because it is stuck, it is bugged don't you think? being stuck is not normal behavior for zeds, so that may be another topic for another bug report. But maybe if it is stuck because of explosives like you describe, it will always be reachable.... so what you say would not be valid (especially now we have zeds icons to find last zeds). Sure maybe in one case out of 1000 you will never be able to reach the stuck zed but I never saw that honestly (OK I did but on a custom map because zed spawned in mysterious area)

Most of workshop maps won't let zed spawn out of map.

But most of times we can't continue the map if siren stuck. By....

Blowing into wall. And our weapon can't hit the siren.

If it was scrake , it will respawn so we can finish this wave.

Map : DevaStation2017 , a siren got blow into ceiling , we have to give up the map....

Another map : BarmwichTown , a scrake got blow into wall by explosion.

Once time siren got blow into wall by demo explosives.
Once time siren got blow into wall by gunslinger nail grenade.
And once time siren got blow into wall by door trap.

And....once time siren got knock into wall by Bone Crusher bash.

The stuck in wall problem is because ragdoll seldom penetrate the wall.
And the another recent game "Overwatch" has the same issue, knocked into wall. And the players can't hit the stuck player too.

 

[NED79]

Maybe because it is stuck, it is bugged don't you think? being stuck is not normal behavior for zeds, so that may be another topic for another bug report. But maybe if it is stuck because of explosives like you describe, it will always be reachable.... so what you say would not be valid (especially now we have zeds icons to find last zeds). Sure maybe in one case out of 1000 you will never be able to reach the stuck zed but I never saw that honestly (OK I did but on a custom map because zed spawned in mysterious area)

This happens far more than it should (definitely more than 1 in 1000.) Maps which we have played lately that have the "stuck zed" problems include"

- Hellspawn
- Castle Wolfenstein
- Map 30
- Catwalk-DrMorph
- FallBack
- Several others whose name escapes me right now.


I understand and appreciate TW listening to players and preventing sirens from respawning.

I would also like for TW to listen to players and provide a fix for zeds that get stuck (at spawn, in ceilings or in walls.) A simple admin "killall" command would be VERY helpful in eradicating this problem.

 

[®omano]

I see a pattern here: custom maps.

 

[simplecat]

Yep, this happens due to navigation errors (likely) because she tend to get scream evaluation orders same time she begin moving to enemy. Looks complicated but console commands shows that her ai orders spammed by new instances of movement and scream commands as well as by some navigation errors too.

 

[NED79]

I see a pattern here: custom maps.

Duh.

Guess we should all just play the official maps only. Just ignore the enjoyment of playing the multiple (500+) creative maps that exist.

 

[[TW]OfficerDavid]

Well if you spot navigation errors on Official maps we can take care of it but we don't have control over Custom Maps in how the content creators lay out their navigation nodes and blocking volumes which is the most likely cause of Zed navigation issues. It may be worth reaching out to the custom map creator with your concerns and bugs and see if they are able or willing to fix some these issues with future map updates.

 

[SrPollo]

What about a command that forces a stuck zed to respawn in a different possibly random location? That way there's no cheating by killing the last zed. The longevity of a game like this is going to be in custom maps, I think it would be to TW's advantage to assist with something like this. Else you'll end up with map creators moving onward and then the player base will follow.

 

[NED79]

OfficerDavid;n2285925]Well if you spot navigation errors on Official maps we can take care of it but we don't have control over Custom Maps in how the content creators lay out their navigation nodes and blocking volumes which is the most likely cause of Zed navigation issues. It may be worth reaching out to the custom map creator with your concerns and bugs and see if they are able or willing to fix some these issues with future map updates.

When a map developer is reachable, I do exactly that. We even go as far as inviting the map developer to our server to see the problem. Liquid Arrow and OGS HedsBgon are two map developers that come to mind.

However, doing that fixes the problem on one map at a time. Providing a "respawn" or "kill last zed" admin command would solve the problem EVERY SINGLE TIME.

 

[®omano]

It would also lead in map exploit to have this available command. It may be a pain in the ass but if custom map creators don't fix their maps problems, we can't put that on TWI's back.

 

[pokerman123]

OfficerDavid;n2285925]Well if you spot navigation errors on Official maps we can take care of it but we don't have control over Custom Maps in how the content creators lay out their navigation nodes and blocking volumes which is the most likely cause of Zed navigation issues. It may be worth reaching out to the custom map creator with your concerns and bugs and see if they are able or willing to fix some these issues with future map updates.

I have a record from my friend , he said he met a siren stuck inside the ceiling of Subway , in .... HostileGrounds.

Yeah... again....it seems caused by demo explosives knocked her into wall.

(Another record is a scrake stuck inside the ceiling at the subway stairs, they have demo in that match too)

And that navigation error happened on siren too , she endlessly scream inside HostileGrounds' solid wall , my friend can't continue the map.

So it's a global bug , as the video I supplied , siren can endlessly scream any map , she just need to be immobile to trigger the endless screaming.

Zed landing test, she will endlessly scream if I spawn her out of the map :
https://youtu.be/mjgUHdfXHQU?t=370

 

[pokerman123]

This time....I really witness the stuck zed problem happened in ...... Official map.

The BioticsLab

At the wave 7 end , we can't find the zed , after searching a little time , we found it is Inside the ceiling.

Fortunately it wasn't siren , is scrake , anti-stuck system send that scrake out after 36 seconds.

If it was siren , we gonna need to give up the Official map BioticsLab because she will stuck forever

 

[NED79]

If TW is adverse to adding a "KillLastZed" command then please add a "RespawnLastZed" command. That would allow an admin to force the last zed to respawn somewhere else. Is that possible?