[beta Sharpshooter] Feedback-stats-ongoing testing

[random]

Some feedback about current SS, as reference i have probably about over 800 hours of SS play in KF1 and about 100+ in KF2, doesn't make me an expert but i know a few things. i put in bold the most important points if you don't feel like reading all.

I don't think this is a bad perk but it could use some work to make up for the beta changes. Pre beta SS was pretty balanced if not a bit OP, still it had a few details which have become more noticeable now, It's been undirectly nerfed in the beta by rack em up change and different zeds mechanics/spawns that swarm you faster, making perks like SS more dependant in trash cleaners, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but also you don't excel at peak DPS all around to make up for it.

Skills look good at first glance but you are TOO dependant on them to do dmg, and they dont apply all that well to weapon combinations or can be counter-intuitive.


WEAPONS:
A brief descriptions and number of shots that takes to kill zeds that can be relevant, tested on 6p HOE, expressed like this: speed skills(right tree) / power skills (left tree).


LAR: decent penetration and power. blocks your view somewhat on reload. balanced weapon but can come up a bit short against a big horde when not aligned. which is only fair. could be just a tad stronger for big zeds and have a bit more ammo, but it's not far away from a perfect weapon.

body shots:
gore 2/1
other trash 1

head shots:
bloat 3/2
siren 2/1
husk 3/2/1(tank)
scrake 11/7
FP 16/9

XBOW: hard to place, very dependant on skills, slow bolts, most noticeable with ping, not that bad but could use a bit more speed in the bolts and base dmg to depend less on skills and be on par with the railgun in terms of performance (taking into acount cost)

1 body shot gores and bellow

head shots:
bloat 1
siren 1
husk 2/1
scrake 5/3
FP 5/3

M14: decent for trash with some skills, just mediocre with others, lacking in performance against big zeds, the desert eagle does a better job at it all around.

body shots:
crawler 1
other trash 2/1
gore 3/2

head shots:
siren 3/2
bloat 3/2
husk 4/3
scrake 16/9
FP 23/13 HUGE difference depending on skills chosen, it is however rather unlikely in a real scenario to be able to consistently kill a FP before he hits you with rage 1 or even twice at worst case, likely to use 25 to 33 shots on avg. on contrast its quite doable with Deagles or magnums to kill them before contact (14 shots for eagle while slowing it).

Railgun: pretty straight forward, gets the job done, can kill about 10 trash in a line, however unlikely. idea just for kicks, stuning trash close to the trail by the supersonic shockwave, to help a bit for the lack of crowd control.

body shots:
husk 2/1
bloat 3/2

head shots:
scrake 2/1
fp 3/2

POOR TEAM COMBOS:
-let's say to kill hans (dummy, no phases) you need roughly the same ammount of RPGs or railgun shots, 31 railgun or 32 RPGs, for argument's sake lets say 30. so you can kill them with 15 of each, that sounds fair to me. On the other hand if you go for an FP or scrake you can't work together with a demo, you both need to do full dmg since you are hiting different zones, seems counterproductive.

SKILLS:

L5:
Sniper: simple straightforward all rounder, having no cooldown time for staying put makes it very easy to use.

Marksman: not a great skill IMO, moderate speed bonus, the shooting speed only applies to LAR and M14, the LAR not being very suitable for rapid shooting because of the long reload, you can pair it with tactical reload BUT at the cost of dmg, the EBR is the only weapon that truly benefits from this if you can spam while mantaining the aim, mostly only somewhat practical on FPs and not by much, most of the time you'd want to take a bit more time to aim.

L10:
Stability: one of the most Damaging skills, it's great downside being that you lose angle to the head on a running FP, that happens to be what you might want this for the most. this affects the M14 the worst. Also losing mobility is a big downside in the more hectic beta, where you might be overrun by trash in the mean time.

Ballistic shock: not a bad skill but the times it comes to be truly useful are not much, also even with its shortcomings its hard to compete with stability.

L15:
rack em up: nerfed badly, it's pretty unreasonable for a slower shooting perk to lose stacks for time, the only weapon that truly benefits from this is the Xbow, making the FP go from 4 shots to 3, even while its possible to do so without losing stacks with a tight timing, its not necessary. on the other hand weapons that are easier to keep the stack with like the M14 and LAR receive a low benefit from it taking 2 shots less for an FP. rougly a 15% benefit.

tactical reload: usefull all around

L20:
dead eye: good sounding skill but not very noticeable in practice except with xbow that seems to need all the power skills to 3 shot an FP.

always prepared: a bit plain sounding but helpful in case you don't make much practical use of dead eye.

L25:
Assasin: triggering zed time with headshots is nice, but the number of headshots to kill a zed hardly ever changes. not bad but not a noticeable advantage. maybe the knockdown was better to gain some time.

Ranger: seems to be bugged, haven't been able to stun with it. the m14 could benefit quite a bit from this one in theory.


TLDR: the SS is just the same as before if not a bit worse and has been left a bit behind by the beta changes, the m14, xbow and some skills seem subpar and i think they could use some work, however before going into suggestions i'd like to share some other perspectives.
Thanks.

 

[LostCyborg]

I have 2 problems with SS in its current state.

1. is the skill tree. As much as i have tried and wanted them to work, all of the damage bonus skills are darn near worthless. Why you ask? Because in KF2, even when camping, I find myself needing to move all the time. So speed is key. Fast reload, faster movement, faster firing. I need to be able to kill fast and run when the shiola gets thick. The speed skills all work well and i like it, but I'd like to be more tempted by the damage increase skills. They just hardly ever seem to pay off. Yeah i can take an FP down pretty quick with the RG from a distance, but when he rounds a corner in front of you, that RG doesnt help much since I am now on the run and need to clear trash out of my escape path and create distance from the fp as much as possible. Its all about survival.

2. M14. Want to love it, but weight and economy and dmg wise, it just simply isnt worth it. You have so many better options if you just hold onto LA and go Xbow, (SWAT or medic smg's, GS pistols, etc... ) or simply wait, save and buy the railgun.

That said, SS in its current state is one of the funnest perks to play IMO. But i always loved it on KF1 too. M14 was similar in KF1. It doesnt suck, it just doesnt seem worth it when you weigh the pros and cons. Also I like the skills to really feel like a tough choice, and currently they don't feel that way. Although we seem to differ in our preferences completely so maybe it just comes down to that. Personal choice and play style.

 

[random]

thank for your interest, just so you know this post was done on 1042 version, there have been some changes since then and i'll update soon, but a lot of the concepts still apply, i too have a lot of fun with the perk

1. skill tree like i said is not really intuitive and requires a decent amount of testing to know what really benefits you and it's weapon specific, sometimes the weapons you use don't even get along in that regard. for most setups i've tried its better to pick at least 1 power skill.

2. after the 1043 changes M14 is pretty sweet except on FPs which almost doesnt care because of his dmg reduction, i mean it's not bad at all, but its kind of on par with gunslinger which also slows them down.

 

[Chyros]

LAR: decent penetration and power. blocks your view somewhat on reload. balanced weapon but can come up a bit short against a big horde when not aligned. which is only fair. could be just a tad stronger for big zeds and have a bit more ammo, but it's not far away from a perfect weapon.

body shots:
gore 2/1
other trash 1

Exactly, this is a really important point actually. The current LAR is useless against clot hordes, which as it happens is exactly what you get in the waves you use the LAR in. I'd say it's an absolutely crucial point they make it so that the LAR can bodyshot clots in one hit.

The current rate of fire on it looks ridiculous as well, they might as well make it semi-auto :/ . I'd much rather they nerf the mag cap and rate of fire than the firepower. As it is, it feels like a limp dick from the 19th century :/ .

 

[random]

Exactly, this is a really important point actually. The current LAR is useless against clot hordes, which as it happens is exactly what you get in the waves you use the LAR in. I'd say it's an absolutely crucial point they make it so that the LAR can bodyshot clots in one hit.

The current rate of fire on it looks ridiculous as well, they might as well make it semi-auto :/ . I'd much rather they nerf the mag cap and rate of fire than the firepower. As it is, it feels like a limp dick from the 19th century :/ .

this is a bit outdated since 1042, but some points still stand, however i dont think its that different against clots particulary. A pre update low level sharp needed to use the sniper skill to 1 shot a slasher, which IMO is the most annoying clot, now you just need it for some others as well, marksman is not really all that good an option, not because its bad but because some weapons are very power skill dependant.

for clots regardless of base dmg your go to option should still be headshots since you have a chance to kill 2 with one headshot, not much with slasher version since their head position is more erratic.

i also think that the fire rate is a bit much.

 

[Chyros]

this is a bit outdated since 1042, but some points still stand, however i dont think its that different against clots particulary. A pre update low level sharp needed to use the sniper skill to 1 shot a slasher, which IMO is the most annoying clot, now you just need it for some others as well, marksman is not really all that good an option, not because its bad but because some weapons are very power skill dependant.

for clots regardless of base dmg your go to option should still be headshots since you have a chance to kill 2 with one headshot, not much with slasher version since their head position is more erratic.

i also think that the fire rate is a bit much.

It should be able to kill all Clots with one body shot IMO. Like I said it's fine if they bring down mag size (it's only 6-8 IRL anyway) and bring down the rate of fire, but there's nothing as frustrating as a weapon that can't kill trash, especially one that's supposed to be pretty high-damage-per-bullet. AND it looks ridiculous while it's doing it. It just feels like a catastrophe to me Oo .

 

[random]

It should be able to kill all Clots with one body shot IMO. Like I said it's fine if they bring down mag size (it's only 6-8 IRL anyway) and bring down the rate of fire, but there's nothing as frustrating as a weapon that can't kill trash, especially one that's supposed to be pretty high-damage-per-bullet. AND it looks ridiculous while it's doing it. It just feels like a catastrophe to me Oo .

That's a highly personal view, i can kind of agree and kind of not, it would need a lot of testing to know for sure, and there is probably more than 1 way that the weapon could be good. Just to clarify the weapon was never able to 1 shot all trash, it just changed a bit in that regard, and sharpshooter its supposed to be about headshots.

However right now the weapon feels like it's not particulary great at anything, became more generic, like a toned down M14. it could be:

-more like before with decent overall dmg but not great against big zeds.
-more like now with lower base dmg but higher headshot multiplier and high stun for big zeds assits.

and the rate of fire and extra bullets dont really contribute much.

 

[Chyros]

That's a highly personal view, i can kind of agree and kind of not, it would need a lot of testing to know for sure, and there is probably more than 1 way that the weapon could be good. Just to clarify the weapon was never able to 1 shot all trash, it just changed a bit in that regard, and sharpshooter its supposed to be about headshots.

However right now the weapon feels like it's not particulary great at anything, became more generic, like a toned down M14. it could be:

-more like before with decent overall dmg but not great against big zeds.
-more like now with lower base dmg but higher headshot multiplier and high stun for big zeds assits.

and the rate of fire and extra bullets dont really contribute much.

I know, going by the stats it shouldn't have been able to kill Slashers in one shot before, but I can swear it could, and I'm not using the extra damage skills either. I even went out specifically to test it and I still killed them, don't know why that is Oo .

I agree that at the moment it feels like a weak M14, which is really a shame and detracts from the diversity as well as the fun of the sharp's arsenal. Anyway, of the two options, I'd say the only option that makes sense, particularly considering what TWI have done with other weapons, is the first option. The reason I say that is because you start with it, and TWI's tier system is quite strictly prohibitive of using low-tier weapons against high-tier enemies. It makes no sense to have that true in every regard except for the lever-action, which can't kill small zeds but is powerful against big ones. Besides, we already have the crossbow pretty much for the second options :/ .

 

[random]

i'm totally 100% sure you couldn't kill a slasher before, it was the first change i noticed uppon reaching level 5 sharp, i'm quite analitical in games and most stuff, however there are some possible scenarios where it could have happened, a bug, a lower difficulty, a small live update change, also i've noticed that the spawnzedgroup command can spawn zeds with lower health than default, but this is not the main point.

The main point is that the LAR right now feels a bit like it has identity crisis.

And on the Xbow subject, while its practical and gimmicky, it can be underpowered for a single action weapon, in a lot of cases 4 bolts for a big zed is a bit much, before it would have been just fine, but now they spawn in bigger amounts at the same time, and while they are softer on the body, the head is almost the same.